Another Customs Seizure

[waruikazi]

if exotics were legalized and controlled simillarly to australian species then the problem that we are experiencing wouldnt be nearly as bad. im not sitting here saying u cant stop people smoking pot so you might as well legalize it, im simply saying that people will continue to keep/breed these species, the most sensible thing would be to regulate it and allow people to do so in a controlled way. there are some truly amazing species that come from abroad and it seems silly that through lak of man power to regulate there quarentine etc etc that we cannot experience these species here (legally). there are many many many people that keep exotics here in australia and 99.9% arent drug dealers or money sucking scum they are simply enthusiasts simillar to everyone else who simply enjoy the fruits from other countries.

ill most definately be philosophically raped for my views however i believe everyone is entilted to there opinion, i most definatley respect those people who belive that there is no place for these species in our wonderful country.

regards

If they were legalized it wouldn't be that long before we had wild populations of exotic snakes competing with our own natives. Ask any snake catcher, i bet they have all caught species that are exotic to their location, too many people lose their reptile pets. No good would ever come of legalizing exotics.

 

[jasonryles810]

i respect all of your opinions and there certainly are some hard truths there.

regards

 

[monix]

exactly. have a chat to some of the rangers in the US.... see how a legalized international species system has worked for them.
considering you are in darwin, surely you would know the impact of an introduced species is like *coughcanetoadcough*

jasonryles810 your view is great in theory, but people are lazy and dont think... well... alot of them anyway.

i seem to say more an more these days... "commonsense isnt very common any more" :|

 

[Hickson]

I'd like to add to the responses to jasonryles810's post with a couple more hard truths:

if exotics were legalized and controlled simillarly to australian species then the problem that we are experiencing wouldnt be nearly as bad.

It is believed by many (including the authorities) that there are about as many unlicensed native reptiles held in NSW as there are licensed ones. Legalizing exotics will not make it any easier to manage - there will still be illegally held ones and people will still be smuggling in new species/morphs.

there are many many many people that keep exotics here in australia

These people are all breaking the law. Legalising exotics will simply be rewarding criminal behaviour.

it seems silly that through lak of man power to regulate there quarentine etc etc

Not sure what you mean by this, as Australian Quarantine does not lack manpower, and the law is there to protect native species which may be threatened by introduced species, not simply because there is a staff shortage. Furthermore, Australian Quarantine has nothing to do with things already in the country, only things being imported (legally or illegally)



Hix

 

[jasonryles810]

great points there Hix, again very truthful and legitimate. i guess at the end of the day every individual keeper has to be accountable for the animals they keep and the husbandry(or lack of) they providide. it comes down to the individual, you need to have the knowledge, you need to have the resources, you need to provide safety for yourself and your animals. if every person took accountablity for themselves then the hobby would be in a much better state. but that is a tall ask.

i really have to question just how easy it is to get a license. pay your fee and two weeks later it comes in the mail and away you go.???? i just dont understand how a person that has absolutely no knoweldge on reptiles could easily be in possession of as many carpet pythons or basic reptiles that they like. there needs to be an exam or a compulsary basic husbandry course that applies to the application of a license. it jsut amazes me the lack of basic knowledge many people have. i seen on this forum yesterday that someone was asking if a gtp would make a great first pet??? and if not what other light green snakes do? oh and i cant feed them rats or mice because they are yukky so what else can i feed them??? this persons lack of knowledge shocked me. she sounded alot like a blonde bimbo buying a car(absolutey no disrespect intended)....ooooohhhh hunny hunny i want the shiney red one!!! never mind if its a bomb, the colour is right so it must be good.
These snakes require almost precise husbandry to be successful in captivity.

I just believe there needs to be more emphasis on the individual. Make exotics legal but to obtain them the process is strenuous and scrutinizing to ensure they are kept by the right people. Similar to our rarer species. Increase the penalty of keeping illegal reptiles, increase the man power of national parks and the various government bodies that control the keeping of reps in Australia. period. If a 12 year old kid wants to keep a reptile, then that kid has to have the same resources, knowledge and ability to give appropriate care for that reptile then an adult with a wage and wealth of experience.

Thankfully price seems to limit the number of people with little knowledge and resources form owning our rarer species. And it is the same for the exotics in Australia. Do you honestly think that a person with limited knowledge will seek out, find and pay thousands of dollars for an exotic species? Trust me they aren’t cheap. If you’ll spend the money you'll have a passion for the animal and you’ll want to know about it and how it behaves and will be more inclined to take proper care for it. Remember when u were a kid and u wanted that particular toy/bike/whatever so much? You saved and saved and washed cars and mowed lawns all holidays to buy it….how much did u look after it? I believe it’s the same here. If it costs thousands do u really think that it’ll be kept in an escapable enclosure or discarded into the wild? Of course not. Secondly if only highly experienced people are allowed to keep them it is again highly unlikely this would occur as the keeper realises this is irresponsibly etc.

I am just talking in general terms here that guidelines need to be tighter for all reptile keeping, illegal animals both native and exotics need to be policed a hell of a lot better. If this was done then just maybe there may be a place for exotics species in Australia one day.

Regards

 

[Splitmore]

The whole arguement against exotics establishing feral populations and displacing native wildlife is extremely flawed. Surely a childrens python is more likely to establish a feral population outside it's range than say a boa constrictor. Why then are we freely allowed to keep childrens, womas etc in Sydney or Melbourne?
In saying that too, simply because it appears that the battle against exotics has already been lost so why not just legalise it doesn't hold much weight either. Plenty of people still speed, steal etc so why not just legalise that as well?

 

[Hickson]

Jason - you make some valid points about several different aspects of reptile keeping, but what it really boils down to is this:

Exotic reptiles are considered a threat to Australia's biodiversity. Altering the keeping regulations and employing more people will not change that fact.



Hix

 

[Hickson]

Surely a childrens python is more likely to establish a feral population outside it's range than say a boa constrictor.

Actually, the above statement is the argument that is flawed.

Children's Pythons have evolved in Australia mover millions of years. They had the entire continent to occupy - yet they remain in the top party of the country. Why do they not naturally oiccur in Sydney and Melbourne and all places in between? Because of some factor -biological/ecological - that keeps them where they are (in this case, probably climatic).

Boa Constrictors, on the other hand, have not had the chance to move from South America to Australia (which is why they aren't here). True, they wouldn't do any good in Sydney either, but I'm sure they would flourish in the Daintree and other rainforests up north. And what would happen to the populations og GTPs if Boas got into the Iran Range? Corn Snakes, from a temperate climate, are more likely to setup feral pops in Sydney (and may have already done so).



Hix

 

[waruikazi]

The whole arguement against exotics establishing feral populations and displacing native wildlife is extremely flawed. Surely a childrens python is more likely to establish a feral population outside it's range than say a boa constrictor. Why then are we freely allowed to keep childrens, womas etc in Sydney or Melbourne?

I don't think it is flawed at all that they could set up wild populations but i also totally agree with you about natives setting up feral populations outside their range. When i was snake catching i would get one snake a month that wasn't a local native, i think they pose a real threat to the natural biodiversity of any single area. I've even heard rumours of feral water dragon populations in Adelaide. Just because it is an Australian native doesn't mean that it can't damage our biodiversity.

 

[jasonryles810]

You make some valid points about several different aspects of reptile keeping, but what it really boils down to is this:

Exotic reptiles are considered a threat to Australia's biodiversity. Altering the keeping regulations and employing more people will not change that fact.



Hix

you are all very aware and intelligent people, and yes they are considered a threat by authorities, what i am questioning is if the threat is great enough to exhile them from private keepers in australia. and furthermore stating that if people took more responsibility with all reptiles that the threat would be lessened and therefore exotics could be kept here with greater peace of mind.

regards

 

[kcaj_123]

It's a shame that animals had to suffer because of stupid people

I wish there was an alternative like sending them somewhere O/S to be cared for...

 

[Hickson]

what i am questioning is if the threat is great enough to exhile them from private keepers in australia.

The authorities believe it is.

if people took more responsibility with all reptiles that the threat would be lessened and therefore exotics could be kept here with greater peace of mind.

The more people there are keeping exotics, the greater the risk.

Furthermore, you might be the most responsible person keeping exotics, but somebody could burgle you and steal your reptiles.



Hix

 

[notechistiger]

If the method of acquiring a licence becomes complicated and a long-winded process, wouldn't that just encourage people to own reptiles illegally?

 

[MMAnne]

I don't have alot to contribute, but looking at those pictures of those baby snakes, knowing that they were put down just makes me want to puke.

>.< Either that or hunt down those responsible

 

[jasonryles810]

If the method of acquiring a licence becomes complicated and a long-winded process, wouldn't that just encourage people to own reptiles illegally?

not if the penalties are more severe, it will cull out the people who arent really serious about the hobby, the iresponsible ones that ruin it for the rest of us. im not saying make it long winded or drawn out, just devise a way of making sure the person getting the license knows what they are doing

cheers

 

[Colin]

i really have to question just how easy it is to get a license. pay your fee and two weeks later it comes in the mail and away you go.???? i just dont understand how a person that has absolutely no knoweldge on reptiles could easily be in possession of as many carpet pythons or basic reptiles that they like. there needs to be an exam or a compulsary basic husbandry course that applies to the application of a license. it just amazes me the lack of basic knowledge many people have.

I agree Jason. I think the initial basic reptile licence is way too easy to acquire and think every new keeper should be given some basic care sheets by the NPWS on pythons, lizards etc and information on proper enclosures, temperatures, feeding, hygene etc. And the applicant should at least have to answer some questions on these to at least show they have bothered to read this information, before the licence is granted.

I know you dont have to undergo tests to keep dogs and cats etc.. but these reptiles are native fauna and if the NPWS are serious about protecting our animals they should also (in my opinion) protect them from idiots that have no idea about how to care for them.

 

[jasonryles810]

exactly colin, im glad you feel the same way