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craftsman

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There is a new ad on Hreptrader for GTPs, which states that the male is a pure Ausie (which it is ... and a nice one!) and the female is from Hemens' line. This female is most certainly not a native. Since Hemens' latest lines are all native, it may give the impression (to the inexperienced) that the progeny are native. Perhaps the seller has no misleading intentions in this case (in which case I apologise) but it would be ethical and appropriate to spell out the full truth - "these juveniles are cross between Ausie native and non-native parents".
IMO it's a pity that some people choose to bastardise our Ausie native wildlife heritage.
Yes, I do have an invested interest in pure Ausie bloodlines and I am not ashamed of it.
 
Who cares? I'm sure anyone with the money and knowledge to contemplate a purchase would have sussed it out?
 
Hey mate,

I know the breeder personally and have spoken with him several times over the last few years about his Greens and he has made absolutely no secret about the origins of his animals. I think he makes it quite clear that the female isn't native by the way that he makes a point about the male being native. Regardless of what line Adrian is breeding now, the female was still bred by him so is still an honest "Hemens" line Green.

Also, I think anyone with half a clue about Greens will be able to spot that the female isn't native in a heart beat. I've never owned them in my life but when he sent me photos a few weeks ago I picked up immediately that the male was native and that the female wasn't.
 
Jonno, there are still many people who wouldn't pick the difference.
Adrian Hemens have been acused in the past for selling supposedly native hatchlings which were in fact mixed lines. He told all the buyers that was the case but someone later on founded handy to pass them on as pure natives. The blaim fel on Adrian. It would be very simple and right thing to do if you friend selled it out.
What about the ethics of it? Do you think your friend has done a wonderful thing for the reptile keeping hobby by crossing the two?
Who cares chrisso81? Many of us do.
 
There is a new ad on Hreptrader for GTPs, which states that the male is a pure Ausie (which it is ... and a nice one!) and the female is from Hemens' line. This female is most certainly not a native. Since Hemens' latest lines are all native, it may give the impression (to the inexperienced) that the progeny are native. Perhaps the seller has no misleading intentions in this case (in which case I apologise) but it would be ethical and appropriate to spell out the full truth - "these juveniles are cross between Ausie native and non-native parents".
IMO it's a pity that some people choose to bastardise our Ausie native wildlife heritage.
Yes, I do have an invested interest in pure Ausie bloodlines and I am not ashamed of it.


Are you the GTP police?
The add dosen't say they are both native GTPs , Maybe take it up with the guy selling the pythons instead of trying to turn people off his animals by using this forum.

I am sure the people who want "pure" ozzy GTPs wont touch them.And the people who want crosses will.
 
Are you the GTP police?
The add dosen't say they are both native GTPs , Maybe take it up with the guy selling the pythons instead of trying to turn people off his animals by using this forum.

I am sure the people who want "pure" ozzy GTPs wont touch them.And the people who want crosses will.

I think Micheal would be flattered at the title of "the AUSSIE GTP Police." He has worked hard and incurred considerable cost to clarify and maintain the reputation of Australian GTPs. I have no problem with crossing lines of GTPs as thats where 90+% of those in Aus came from but it does seem a shame to "waste" an pure Aussie male when their numbers are still a little thin on the ground.
 
I saw the ad it seemed quite clear to me that they would be hybrids, otherwise they would say the offspring are native wouldnt they?
 
Just how many people have breedable true Aussie GTP's??

Obviously Hemens had non native gtp's and would happily breed them and sell the offspring as what they are for years. Just because now he is lucky enough(along with you) to have Aussies doesn't mean that people are being deceived when ad advert comes up like the one currently on HT.
Like Jonno has already stated people in the market for these animals will do there research before buying, but I understood exactly what he was saying in the ad, the male was Aussie the female wasn't!

Like has been said already, 90%+ of GTP's here are non native of mixed geographical region and that is a fact that isn't going to change anytime soon.

I think you(Craftsman) have made it obvious that you consider the Aussie GTP's better than the other 90%+ of foreign, but I think you are taking it a bit far when posting threads like this one making out that the advertiser on HT is misleading people.
 
It wouldn't hurt to really spell it out in laymans terms in the ad, but I don't think any inexperienced keepers will be forking out for a GTP, so I don't think it's a major issue in that sense.
 
I am little bit sick of being accused of putting native GTPs above the others. Those of you who "assume" so, obviously don't know me and know nothing about my interests, views and goals.

I can't wait to get a few non-natives, I think they (or at least some) are terrific and see nothing wrong with cross breeding them because nobody knows where they came from in the first place. When it comes to natives, they don't lend themselves to designer morphs experimentation because they are not very variable. As I see it, they stand on their own and I would like to see them in people's collections as pure Ausie native GTPs. I can't and I am not trying to "police" what others do with their snakes but it hurts me to see such a blunder. As far as I am concerned, these X progeny has little future and will eventually get lost amongst the rest of the "unknowns". Is that a smart breeding?
I am not discouraging anyone from buying these or any other GTPs but I am trying to influence keepers / breeders to consider the ethicks of what they are doing and I am unashamedly trying to set standards when it comes to pure Ausie bloodlines.

So, to make it crystal clear, the ad doesn't bother me as much as the goods advertised.
 
Funny that only in Australia reptile breeders get superstar status for breeding reptiles. The fact is that few breeders can say exactly where their original lines came from. We believe these superstars because they say so. I would still love to see the paperwork of any legally acquired wild green along with locality collection data and photos of exactly where the animal was caught. There must be a signature of the relevant person(in charge of these prermits) at the time when this capture was allowed. Surely there must be a paper trail somewhere? If someone have posted documents in past threads then I apologise. This goes for most of the carpet python locales too. I have seen many supposed Aussie green young in recent years that was sold as such that do not match any of the pictures of these animals taken in the wild. They seem to have a lot less vertebral speckling, at least 80% less. I think people are being taken for a ride. But that is just my opinion.
 
Hi Craftsman

I'm terribly sorry to have offended your ethical sensibilities with my advertisement. I thought I was making myself perfectly clear in the ad that there was a clear distinction between the origins of the mother and the father. Your current partner in GTP breeding sold me the mother directly and swore black and blue that it was an Aussie GTP. I knew better at the time and I'm not about to pretend its a pure Aussie now either. I've also made it perfectly clear to the number of people who've inquired about my ad and bought babies that the father is an Aussie and the mother is not (she's just a good-looking southern GTP).

Warren, sorry you think I 'wasted' the boy, but you'll be pleased to know that male snakes can successfully reproduce with more than one female in a season :)

Thanks to all those who offered words of support and thanks to those who've been buying my GTPs!

Regards,
Matt
 
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Cordylus, since you are so keep to see the trial or documentation pertaiining to native GTPs, why don't you ask all the owners on the non-native GTPs to produce their trails and documents. You would get shot down in flames!

You have obviously no experience with native GTPs, nor you have read much of literature re- the reduced vertebral markings. PLEASE do not make sily suggestions that "people are being taken for a ride". Your comments won't be taken seriously by those who know better.

Reptilian, do you have a problem with what I said? Please read my post again, it'll come to you.
 
Mods, woulds you please step in?
Naming people in this forum? I thought there were some rules on this.
 
Mods, woulds you please step in?
Naming people in this forum? I thought there were some rules on this.

Sorry, didn't know we had to be anonymous. I spose it helps when you're taking digs at people :)
Regards,
Matt
 
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