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As I said in post 40 Australia and New Guinea were connected by a land bridge as recently as 8000 or so years ago.

correct me if im wrong please. but wasnt there dna testing done on so called australian native gtp and the new guinea gtp and the same dna traces were found in both? so dose this mean that the new guinea species swam here or australia and new guinea were connected many years ago? i dont belive anyone can honestly say what is a pure australian native gtp. i think most honestly believe that what they own is an australian native.
 
Of course. Why would I want anything Australian if it always ends up with dribble like this. Now quickly run and tell the authorities that there are new guinea animals in Australian collections. They are just plain boring and over rated in comparison to the other exotics in my collection.

No such intentions mate, I can assure you. You are the one prodding native GTP owners to produce evidence. When I put you in the spot, you came up with this. Enjoy your exotic collection and I will enjoy my - no more prodding eh?
 
Well done with the hatchies Matt, they`re stunners in my book, maybe next time just advertise them as ordinary everyday greens like everyone else, those in the know will know!!

Once again, well done, just wish I could afford em I would definately buy from you.
 
One more thing,

Aussie GTP`s have been in collections legally for around 20 years that I know of personally, its just taken this long for them to be available in sufficent numbers to be offered to the general public
 
LOL.
people are funny, since when does breding a GTP with a GTP = hybrid?
Besides that, who can actualy PROVE 100% that the animals they have are Aussie/foreign?
and another point is that most of the 'foreign' lines are of mixed heritage (locale) anyway but everyone is not jumping on that wagon and calling all foreign lines hybrids.
 
Hey guys, I can't see anything misleading in Matt's ad. All of the info is there.
I haven't had dealings with Matt but after seven years studying this game you get to know who's got the good stuff and who's a straight up guy. I know Matt's got amazing animals and I know from talking to people who have dealt with Matt that he is one of the good guys.
Same thing with Nick by the way.
Anyway, my view on the outcrossing thing is that locality is all crap unless you have documented proof. If your total breeding stock are progeny of the few legally collected animals you should be able to prove that. It's not a long line back. There would have to be illegally collected Aussie lines out there. They are no less pure but surely there's no moral difference between those and obvious png lines. Plus you're relying on some guy telling you what they are as opposed to being able to trace back a documented line. On that subject if craftsman's chondro partner sold Matt his pictured mother animal as a 100% Australian then something is definitely wrong there.
 
I don't see any problem with the add as when I read it I knew it was saying that the mother was an imported line.

If the imported lines are cheaper or undesireable ( therefore should be cheaper) I don't think it's fair for gtp breeders not to state where the lines have come from. If all Australian line is the desireable for breeders how do you expect new breeders to keep to this if the information is not available to the general public and only to those in the know!!!

These problems are because reptiles don;t have pedigrees as I have said before I don't see why they don't. I think it should be done that way you would know where your animals lines were from. I know this wouldn't solve everything but it certainly would stop someone selling an animal as a certain line when the pedigree says it's a different line.
 
How come the imported lines are cheaper? Those snakes should be equivalent to the aussie snakes not cheaper, their location shouldn't mean their worth less. (if it were a human that would be horrific) Since all the green tree pythons originated from the same place it really shouldn't be this big of a deal to so call "mix" a green tree python, I can understand a jungle carpet and a green tree python, but seriously some people fret to much over mundane things. Your snakes are in captivity! if your country ensures habitats for native wildlife you should never have to release captives into the wild. This would mean that "mixing" your lines should not matter which seems to be the worries for people need to keep the lines pure! Since they are so expensive over there I would think no one in their right mind would release them so again no threat to the native wildlife. If your worried about keeping snakes pure they should have never been taken out of the wild in the first place.
 
Guys, I am going to take a long break from this forum. I realised that it's time to leave more room here for all those GTP experts, accountants and magicians. I will now join the smart people and watch this crap with a glass of scotch in my hand, have a lough now and then and enjoy doing what I like to do best.
Cheers
 
How come the imported lines are cheaper? Those snakes should be equivalent to the aussie snakes not cheaper, their location shouldn't mean their worth less. (if it were a human that would be horrific) Since all the green tree pythons originated from the same place it really shouldn't be this big of a deal to so call "mix" a green tree python, I can understand a jungle carpet and a green tree python, but seriously some people fret to much over mundane things. Your snakes are in captivity! if your country ensures habitats for native wildlife you should never have to release captives into the wild. This would mean that "mixing" your lines should not matter which seems to be the worries for people need to keep the lines pure! Since they are so expensive over there I would think no one in their right mind would release them so again no threat to the native wildlife. If your worried about keeping snakes pure they should have never been taken out of the wild in the first place.

Nikay,

Your statements are totally correct if based on someone who keeps a collection solely to see how pretty they can make their pet snakes. My collection serves several purposes, the least of which is having visually unique or appealing animals. I keep some pretty boring stuff, like 11 Eastern Brown Snakes and 13 Coastal Carpet Python and more Common Blue Tongues than you can poke a stick at. The reason for this is because I have an interest in wild animals and my collection represents locality specific animals that allow me to go on a virtual herping trip around Australia every time I'm down there. I couldn't give a hoot if it has a pretty stripe or if it's hypomelanistic, but it'll be cast out of my collection in a heartbeat if it isn't locality pure.
 
do youdo it for just snakes? what about dogs? or cats? If you own a rottweiler it didn't originate from australia. Or a quarter horse...etc not saying you do but animals from all around the world that didn't originate there are found there. For some reason that I don't understand some firm believers in locality don't hold this true to all animals especially mixed breeds. Are you a person who would base every animal on locality?
 
do youdo it for just snakes? what about dogs? or cats? If you own a rottweiler it didn't originate from australia. Or a quarter horse...etc not saying you do but animals from all around the world that didn't originate there are found there. For some reason that I don't understand some firm believers in locality don't hold this true to all animals especially mixed breeds. Are you a person who would base every animal on locality?


All those animals you mention are domestic, not wild at all and have no locality, I can't believe you are trying to compare the two.
 
Matt I read your ad the day it went up and had no problem with it, or the breeding. Breeding GTP's is an achievment regardless of origin. At that price I'm sure you had plenty of takers.
 
do youdo it for just snakes? what about dogs? or cats? If you own a rottweiler it didn't originate from australia. Or a quarter horse...etc not saying you do but animals from all around the world that didn't originate there are found there. For some reason that I don't understand some firm believers in locality don't hold this true to all animals especially mixed breeds. Are you a person who would base every animal on locality?

Nobody is. Collecting snakes as a hobby is very different to having a pet dog or a horse. You can't compare them.
 
do youdo it for just snakes? what about dogs? or cats? If you own a rottweiler it didn't originate from australia. Or a quarter horse...etc not saying you do but animals from all around the world that didn't originate there are found there. For some reason that I don't understand some firm believers in locality don't hold this true to all animals especially mixed breeds. Are you a person who would base every animal on locality?

I don't have an interest in dogs, cats or horses. Well, I lie...I like shooting cats and we do own a horse. However, they are domesticated species and have little relevance in this discussion. Does it transfer over to our collection of fish and birds? Yes, it does.
 
True but we are in the process of domesticating them in the first place. We are breeding them year after year generations after generations to live in close associations with humans. We can't necessarily tame them nor can we use them like a horse can but we are in a way domesticating them. All breeds originate from somewhere, the rottweiler in germany etc. one place thinks of a way to breed the animal to a way that is useful for us, snakes are to instinctual based and don't have enough intellegence to be able to train them to certain uses.
 
I've been watching this thread all day, and finding it very hard to stay out of it and mind my own buisness.....

But i have to say, I agree with Craftsman in this debate. Call me a romantic, but i believe in pure locale animals, and keeping them that way. Jonno's post describes it well.

And before everyone says "how can you 100% guarantee that your animals are what they are?", some of us do know for CERTAIN.

I'm not judging Matt, because i know he's an honest, decent bloke. And everyone's got their own opinion and right to do what they like with their own animals. But in this case, i agree with Craftsman.
 
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