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Green pythons can be DNA tested (at least the females), and with a large enough data-set you can distinguish native snakes to those from PNG/Irian Jaya. Many (known) native green pythons that have been in captivity for a while do loose their vertebral stripe and thus tend to resemble 'exotics' - whether this is due to reduced UV, has, to my best knowledge, not be tested.

Can this be tested through mitochondrial DNA?
 
Yes. I would argue that 8/10 native greens can be picked from an exotic by visual means, however sight or DNA would have a hard time determining the origin of an Irian Jaya/Aussie hybrid.
 
Green pythons can be DNA tested (at least the females), and with a large enough data-set you can distinguish native snakes to those from PNG/Irian Jaya. Many (known) native green pythons that have been in captivity for a while do loose their vertebral stripe and thus tend to resemble 'exotics' - whether this is due to reduced UV, has, to my best knowledge, not be tested.
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Any animal both male and female can be tested by m-DNA, however its only passed on from the maternal side so it doesn't prove an animal is a native, only that the mother was native.
 
Correct, therefore you cannot know the origin of your males.
 
I've got nothing at all against people who have no care or consideration for locality reptiles, it's up to the individual. I've got some unknown locale animals myself. I can acknowledge that most people just want the 'best' looking snake they can get for their money, and i try and accomodate those people.

But in my opinion, nothing beats a good looking locality pure animal. As i've said before, it means nothing to most people, but to those of us that it does, it means almost everything, for reasons i cant explain. Pure romance in my case. But thats the way it is for me. And with the Chondros, I personally think the Aussie ones are the best looking by a country mile. Call me a patriot.
 
one could ask why do native gtp that have been in captivity for a while do loose their vertebral stripe?? is this caused by multi generations of inter- breeding siblings to parents and sibling to sibling?? the loss of this stripe could be the start of deformities
 
For any one who wants to know this is what dictionary.com said for what domestication means:
1.to convert (animals, plants, etc.) to domestic uses; tame.2.to tame (an animal), esp. by generations of breeding, to live in close association with human beings as a pet or work animal and usually creating a dependency so that the animal loses its ability to live in the wild.3.to adapt (a plant) so as to be cultivated by and beneficial to human beings.4.to accustom to household life or affairs.5.to take (something foreign, unfamiliar, etc.) for one's own use or purposes; adopt.6.to make more ordinary, familiar, acceptable, or the like: to domesticate radical ideas.
doesn't mean just for research and food.....
 
Correct, therefore you cannot know the origin of your males.


You cannot tell the origin of any of your animals (via m-DNA) not just the males, as the m-DNA is only passed from the maternal line, so you have no way of knowing if the father was native or not.
 
For any one who wants to know this is what dictionary.com said for what domestication means:
1.to convert (animals, plants, etc.) to domestic uses; tame.2.to tame (an animal), esp. by generations of breeding, to live in close association with human beings as a pet or work animal and usually creating a dependency so that the animal loses its ability to live in the wild.3.to adapt (a plant) so as to be cultivated by and beneficial to human beings.4.to accustom to household life or affairs.5.to take (something foreign, unfamiliar, etc.) for one's own use or purposes; adopt.6.to make more ordinary, familiar, acceptable, or the like: to domesticate radical ideas.
doesn't mean just for research and food.....

still more than 26 species which was stated to be true otherwise proven furthermore, which i did. :D
 
For any one who wants to know this is what dictionary.com said for what domestication means:
1.to convert (animals, plants, etc.) to domestic uses; tame.2.to tame (an animal), esp. by generations of breeding, to live in close association with human beings as a pet or work animal and usually creating a dependency so that the animal loses its ability to live in the wild.3.to adapt (a plant) so as to be cultivated by and beneficial to human beings.4.to accustom to household life or affairs.5.to take (something foreign, unfamiliar, etc.) for one's own use or purposes; adopt.6.to make more ordinary, familiar, acceptable, or the like: to domesticate radical ideas.
doesn't mean just for research and food.....
yes ok nikay, but dont really know what that has to do with being native or not. dna could prove the origin of any snake, but only if there was a dna sample of the claimed origin native australian gtp. without these samples this argument will just continue, as no one can truely prove their snake is a native
 
Yes. I would argue that 8/10 native greens can be picked from an exotic by visual means, however sight or DNA would have a hard time determining the origin of an Irian Jaya/Aussie hybrid.

You could only really tell if you look at their entire genome couldnt you? say you get a 90% aussie 10% exotic it will look native and probably no one could tell, but its still likely to be carrying genes that dont exist in Aussie populations. At the end of the day it isnt really any worse than mixing localities of other species and that is extremely common. Differant ppl have differant ideas on how much hybridisation is ok, there is no way everyone will agree on where the line should be, so there is no point trying.
 
I agree Shane. Although I don't keep reptiles, I would like to know where my animals came from. Some don't however and their entitled to that conviction. I also agree, there are green pythons and green pythons, but from the 1 or 2 natives and exotics I have seen, natives win over PNG/Irian Jayans hands down.

Junglepythyon - I apologise, I didn't know how well you knew the topic - you are right.
 
sorry wasn't talking about the DNA that went back a ways just didn't have the time to post it.... Genetically if it can't be proven, anyway If I placed eggs of random green tree pythons into the native habitats of your aussie pythons are they then considered native? check out this definition of native and see what you think...
1.being the place or environment in which a person was born or a thing came into being: one's native land. 2.belonging to a person by birth or to a thing by nature; inherent: native ability; native grace. 3.belonging by birth to a people regarded as indigenous to a certain place, esp. a preliterate people: Native guides accompanied the expedition through the rain forest. 4.of indigenous origin, growth, or production: native pottery. 5.of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the indigenous inhabitants of a place or country: native customs; native dress. 6.born in a particular place or country: a native New Yorker. 7.of or pertaining to a language acquired by a person before or to the exclusion of any other language: Her native language is Greek. 8.pertaining to or characteristic of a person using his or her native language: a native speaker of English; native command of a language
There is more but anyway people can look up the rest themselves, alternative scenario if a breeding pair of "jayapura" locale green tree escapes and mate lay a clutch of eggs and they hatch what would you consider those babies to be. (look at the definition)(obviously the scenarios are far fetched but again look at the principles behind it)
 
Cris - You are right. Get enough samples and figure out the genome for each individual and you get your answer, however nobody is going to do that. Maybe in the future with better tech? I also agree that there is no line. Some people strive to collect locality specific animals, however they never really know do they. If they are that pedantic about having to know, then they should, either keep no reptiles (for fear of keeping a possible hybrid), or obtain permits to collect their locality specifics from the wild themselves - simple.
 
Nikay, try definition 5, thats what we are talking about. Also please stop hijacking this thread with crap.
 
I know I am VERY late, but I don't want to trawl through the pages of this thread to find my answer. Sue me.

How can he have a non-native snake? Aren't they illegal?
 
I know I am VERY late, but I don't want to trawl through the pages of this thread to find my answer. Sue me.

How can he have a non-native snake? Aren't they illegal?

Alot of greens were brought over here for collectors before it was made illegal, if they were already here for long enough they were declared legal to keep and breed in captivity under the amnesty. The whole no importing law is to stop new diseases etc coming into the country, since some of these were already here and obviously healthy enough they got permission to stay.
 
re X

Seen the advert that mathew Bonnett posted on another forum,he explained things well in his add,the female from Hemmens is attractive but obviously not a native.The market for GTPs is getting tight,theres too many breeders after the pie,hence the bitching,thats all it is :lol:
 
Nikay,

Your statements are totally correct if based on someone who keeps a collection solely to see how pretty they can make their pet snakes. My collection serves several purposes, the least of which is having visually unique or appealing animals. I keep some pretty boring stuff, like 11 Eastern Brown Snakes and 13 Coastal Carpet Python and more Common Blue Tongues than you can poke a stick at. The reason for this is because I have an interest in wild animals and my collection represents locality specific animals that allow me to go on a virtual herping trip around Australia every time I'm down there. I couldn't give a hoot if it has a pretty stripe or if it's hypomelanistic, but it'll be cast out of my collection in a heartbeat if it isn't locality pure.
Quality post Jonno, one for the realists.:)
 
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