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Luke1

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hey all,
ive never felt like asking this because i always thought i would get some pretty gay replies, but im confused about the to groups of the snakes particulary the scrub python....

Scrub pythons are the largest python in Australia right (everyone knows) but why are they classed in the morelia group when:
  1. the have semetrical head scales like the liasis group but non of the other carpet pythons do?
  2. both the olive and water pythons are big snakes...and then the scrubies are the largest but olives are way larger then the coastals? (im pretty sure they are anyway correct me if im wrong)
  3. is there something in the blood or a distinctive feature that the scrub python have that the other liasis dont?
  4. is it because the head shape is more...wider and mor eof a heart shape where as the olives and waters are more of a dart shape?
serious answers please, dont want any bullcrap from people, just interested why...

Cheers,

Luke
 
...bump!!!!


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It's a good question, and probably a difficult one to answer. In my eyes scrubbies fit into morelia closer then liasis, they look similar to a carpet to me, the olives that I've seen seem to have a different build to morelia, I can't quite explain it. The way liasis are patternless and scrubs have pattern probably has something to do with it too?
 
It's a good question, and probably a difficult one to answer. In my eyes scrubbies fit into morelia closer then liasis, they look similar to a carpet to me, the olives that I've seen seem to have a different build to morelia, I can't quite explain it. The way liasis are patternless and scrubs have pattern probably has something to do with it too?

they do look more like one yes, but ah, i dunno! ive always had thoughts about it! maybe the patterning too....cause the scrubys have more patterning where as the olives and waters are just plan (except for waters they have that shimmering stuff....pattern:D)
have you got pics maybe?

Luke
 
According to Cogger. Liasis - scales at rear of body with one or two apical pits and morelia - most scales without apical pits.
 
ok i have collected some pics off the internet first 3 pics will be of a side veiw of a
1) jungle carpet python 2) scrub python 3) olive python
 
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arent water pythons and olives more so ground dwellers.and pretty much all the morelia arboreal... could tht possibly have something to do with it??
 
and the next 3 are a top veiw of the heads...same as last time:
1) carpet python 2) scrub python 3) olive python
 
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well one thing i just noticed with the difference between the olives and scrub python is that the scrub pythons pits go most of the way along the bottom of the lip, but dont go right to the corner...
where as the olive pythons aren't right under the lips and are only in the corners of the mouth.....
 
hmmm,
Morelia amethistina,
Morelia spilota,
sorry to sound like a smart *** but see the difference,carpets and scrubs are not the same sp, like how central beardies and eastern beardies are not the same,
BT
 
I hope this is not a Bull craaap answer,

Quite simply it comes down to genetics.

A Genus is a term used for a group of closely related species. The actual term genus is somewhat fluid however, and has no "set" rules however generally speaking most taxonomists have their own ideas on what makes up a genus.

These days you tend to find that genera are defined by mainly how close they are to each other genetically. By looking at Mitochrondrial DNA (generally from liver samples) you can sequence an individual. This can show how closely related individuals are thoughout their geographical range and can show how closely related they are to other simliar animals. (Previously morphology had been used to split up species genera etc)

Fairly recently the Boids (Pythons and Boas) have been looked at genetically and new genus was erected for what was Python reticulatus (Broghammerus) as the Asian member of the genus Python were very different to the African species Python sebae.

In regards to Scrub Pythons what was one species is now 4, in Australia we only have Morelia kinghorni.

As for Liasis boa, L. mackloti and L. olivaceus, these have been shown to be on a different clade to the Morelia group, thus they are in a different genus.

Also in paper published this year it was found that Aspidites do have heat receptive pits along the jaw line.

Cheers,
Scott Eipper
 
sorry Luke, its 10/15 on a Sat night and I have already consumed a bottle of wine so maybe tonight is not the best night to talk about python classification. But anyway, firstly, Aussie pythons, many years ago, were only classified into two genus being "liasis" and "python". Yeah, thats right, in the 70's a diamond python was "python spilota spilota" and a stimsons python was "liasis childreni". The thing that differentiated the two genus was a prehensile tail. I.e. a tail that could grasp and be used to climb. things haven't changed too much I guess. But at least now a Bredli is a different species to a Jungle when in 1980 they were both actually the same sub-species being spilota variegata. Thankfully they found a couple of extra scales between the eyes of the bredli so it managed to get its own species classification.

so I guess in layments terms, Morelia are tree dwelling pythons whereas Liasis are ground dwelling pythons (yeah I know anteresia climb) but that is the reason for it anyway. If ya dont like it do a phd and speak to Richard Shine once you have finished.
 
thanks scott and peter for the good answers on all the scientific stuff...!

all makes sense so thanks for the help!

Luke
 
I hope this is not a Bull craaap answer,

Quite simply it comes down to genetics.

A Genus is a term used for a group of closely related species. The actual term genus is somewhat fluid however, and has no "set" rules however generally speaking most taxonomists have their own ideas on what makes up a genus.

These days you tend to find that genera are defined by mainly how close they are to each other genetically. By looking at Mitochrondrial DNA (generally from liver samples) you can sequence an individual. This can show how closely related individuals are thoughout their geographical range and can show how closely related they are to other simliar animals. (Previously morphology had been used to split up species genera etc)

Fairly recently the Boids (Pythons and Boas) have been looked at genetically and new genus was erected for what was Python reticulatus (Broghammerus) as the Asian member of the genus Python were very different to the African species Python sebae.

In regards to Scrub Pythons what was one species is now 4, in Australia we only have Morelia kinghorni.

As for Liasis boa, L. mackloti and L. olivaceus, these have been shown to be on a different clade to the Morelia group, thus they are in a different genus.

Also in paper published this year it was found that Aspidites do have heat receptive pits along the jaw line.

Cheers,
Scott Eipper

Where can I get the DNA results (or studies) on this. From what I have been told is that the taxonomy of Australian snake is a visual one. I could be wrong. The DNA results on coastals and jungles would be interesting.
 
I hope this is not a Bull craaap answer,.............

Also in paper published this year it was found that Aspidites do have heat receptive pits along the jaw line.

Cheers,
Scott Eipper

I am sure it isn't, it is an amazing answer!!! But I am curious- are you able to refer me to the paper that was published? I have a BHP, and was told they don't have heat receptive pits.
 
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