Crossing subspecies and hybrids.

[SimAtWork]

What's considered a subspecies? Is that like crossing 2 spotteds of different locales? Or crossing spotted with childreni? (I've heard that can be done).

 

[aliveandkicking]

Different strains of one sp. I.e, Carpest and Diamonds are different sub species of the morelia sp.

Crossing a spotted and a childreni would be hybridizing

 

[SimAtWork]

So the behaviour that people get flamed for, in terms of mixing, is crossing a blonde mac spotted with another kind of spotted part of that?

 

[SimAtWork]

B u m p i t y
u
m
p

 

[Vixen]

What people generally frown upon is crossbreeding different subspecies / species, so as you said for example a spotted x stimson.

A spotted x spotted, even if they are from different locales would be ok, some people like locale specfic animals though.

 

[$NaKe PiMp]

yeah morelia spilota mcdowelli cross any other morelia spilota is very popular people love it

lol

 

[mysnakesau]

Sub species is a naturally occuring species which has (over centuries) adapted to its own ways of life which can be similar but not exactly the same as their ancestors.

I am hopeless at trying to explain things but I know what I mean. eg. A sub species of spotted pythons may have originated as intergrades or morphs, or simply moved away from the typical location and have adapted to different climates. Over centuries colour, pattern and size may have changed to adapt to new climate but they are still a species of Spotted python.

Spotted crossed with childrens is not a sub species. Its a hybrid.

The diamond/carpet intergrade has earned itself a sub species place probably due to the large area they cover and the fact they have adapted to a climate where the diamond would probably not thrive as well.

 

[SimAtWork]

Thanks.

 

[coz666]

i have seen a hybrid stimson x spotted and it looked like a spotteds head. dark brown no visible markings and a very sleek appearence. the underbelly was very cream / white and the scales producd the same oily effect and even though illegal in the state of veiwing wasnt a bad looking python.
i wish i had taken a photo.
scale count was stimson.
anyone else seen one? what was it like?

 

[cris]

So the behaviour that people get flamed for, in terms of mixing, is crossing a blonde mac spotted with another kind of spotted part of that?

Yes crossing a blonde spotted python with another differant locality type such as the smaller ones from southern Qld, intergrades like the platinum "spotteds" or those pygmy "stimsons" would get you flamed by some ppl and is really no better than crossing species/subspecies IMO. Those that breed mixed locality animals muddy the waters as much as those that breed crosses of animals that currently have differant names. However crossing animals with differant names is likely to be illegal in most states, while mixing localities isnt a legal issue.

After saying all that i personally dont really think crossing snakes is going to cause any more problems than what there already is.

 

[hardcorey007]

However crossing animals with differant names is likely to be illegal in most states, while mixing localities isnt a legal issue.

Cris,

Where is this written? It is in black and white for Queensland, but where is it written down for the other states\territories? If it isn't written down in black and white I would suggest it is unlikely to be illegal in most states\territories! Everyone keeps banging on about how it is illegal in most states\territories. When I've asked people in the past to show where it is written no one has been able to, or they show me the one for Queensland.

 

[mysnakesau]

Crossing locales probably isn't a legal issue but why would you want to? It will only tarnish the beauty of the parents. Eg to put a wheatbelt stimmy to another type, say a tennent creek, look how beautiful the wheatbelts are, you won't see that in the clutch from locale crossed parents. You may see a resemblence but the markings and colouration will be weakened from co-dominance of both sides. Legally the animal is still an Anteresia Stimsoni but to sell the young, a breeder is not going to want to buy one of them knowing it could throw a colour different to what the snake looks like.

 

[Bushfire]

What's considered a subspecies?

This is abit harder to answer than you would think because taxonomists have many heated debates over this question. Wikipedia can give you a general idea of what makes a subspecies a subspecies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies. But when it comes to individual groups (like what we consider with the carpet pythons) what is considered a subspecies today may not be in future years or it could even be placed higher to species level. So then if taxonomists argue over how much difference is needed to be considered a subspecies or even a new species what hope do we have to make proper judgment. The best we can say is a group is generally accepted as being a subspecies.

Is that like crossing 2 spotteds of different locales? Or crossing spotted with childreni? (I've heard that can be done).

In crossing a spotted with a childreni, remember you are dealing with two species not subspecies so it is considered and widely accepted as being a hybrid and most likely put heaps of people offside.

In crossing 2 spotteds of different locales; you are breeding the same species together but when you consider what I wrote above in the first part, there is a potential for a different locales to be elevated to a subspecies level or even species. So today you might not be crossing but tomorrow you could be. This is where people find themselves in conflict so to avoid potentially crossing alot of people wont breed different locales together.

 

[Chimera]

Those that breed mixed locality animals muddy the waters as much as those that breed crosses of animals that currently have differant names.

It's funny how frequently people quote the term "muddy the waters" without putting any consideration into what they are saying. I guess it tends to demonstrate their inability to articulate (or develop) their own thoughts and conclusions.

I've said before, that I don't agree with crossing subspecies, but concede that this practice will continue. The practice of breeding different locale animals already exists within the morph market and crossing subspecies will be an extension of this.

The term "muddy the waters" is pointless when referring to crossing locales or subspecies as the waters only get "muddied" if animals are misrepresented. We are all fully aware that both practices exists, problems only occur are when animals are misrepresented. I think the morph market will grow to include subspecies hybrids while the locality market will exist in parallel.

 

[megrim]

Cris,

Where is this written? It is in black and white for Queensland, but where is it written down for the other states\territories? If it isn't written down in black and white I would suggest it is unlikely to be illegal in most states\territories! Everyone keeps banging on about how it is illegal in most states\territories. When I've asked people in the past to show where it is written no one has been able to, or they show me the one for Queensland.

Indeed, people love to say it's illegal, they'd just rather not add "only in Queensland" :lol:

Victoria has no legislature at all regarding breeding of any type, which surprised me.

 

[dave8208]

WELL......... you have opened up a can of worms now

what all you experts are also saying is that , because i am a white aussie male . i cannot have children with my black african female wife ....because we are mixing up " locale "

geeeez.... get over it will ya ..... let those who want to mix and match do it ...it is perfectly legal.