Reptiles in NSW pet shops

[aussie.snakes]

Maybe they should just issue a few select breeders with the ability to sell their reptiles commercially. Doesn't seem right that the corner pet shop is able to sell reptiles to the public with animals on display while Gordan down the street who has kept reptiles all his life and has a wealth of knowledge is much more restiricted.

Petshop could have a huge ad in a newspaper saying, "We have Reptiles". While Gordan would not be allowed to advertise in such a way.

Can somebody think about poor, old Gordan!!!

Guess they would have to release another class of license to the general public to allow them to sell commercially. I think I remember reading that some other states have this in place.

On another note; if this ever does happen, NPWS better hire a few more people. I think there would be a huge flood of license applications.

 

[Vincent]

From what i've been told they will only be able to sell a few "introductory" species. The idea behind this is so when the beginner get sicks of his beardy or childrens python, and starts to look at other species, he will have to go through a private breeder. This is exactly how it was explained to me by someone who has been involved in the whole process.

 

[peterjohnson64]

Most of what people are hearing is anecdotal. All these things were raised during the forums but the dept has gone away to make their own rules up and we have no idea af what will come out the grinder.

 

[Sel]

Maybe they should be legalised in all of N.S.W except for The Central Coast then.

Im sure its not just the central coast

I have no problem with it, as long as the pet stores that are selling the reptiles actually know what they are selling,know what they are talking about and they can give the right answers and not just make something up to sell an animal.

I still would not buy from a petshop,i just couldnt spend that much money knowing i can get it for half the price, also imagine how much stress a snake would be in being moved everyday?

Snakes are alot different to a cat or a dog, so yes i think there needs to be some kind of course done for anyone who is going to be dealing with them in pet stores

 

[BJC-787]

i agree with Geck82

it seems most people that are apposed to the selling of reptiles in pet shops are the breeders of reptiles. why is that? because they want the market to themselves.

i breed reptiles and also work in a pet shop and most of the people i talk to think it is a good idea and they are the people that come in and are getting their first reptile and they buy all the equipment and stuff and then have to find a breeder to get their reptile.
how is that a shop can't sell them and joe blow down the road can breed 100 snakes a year and sell them (and i bet he doesn't have to pay taxes on them) like a shop would.

 

[Zoltag]

Maybe they should just issue a few select breeders with the ability to sell their reptiles commercially. Doesn't seem right that the corner pet shop is able to sell reptiles to the public with animals on display while Gordan down the street who has kept reptiles all his life and has a wealth of knowledge is much more restiricted.

Petshop could have a huge ad in a newspaper saying, "We have Reptiles". While Gordan would not be allowed to advertise in such a way.

Can somebody think about poor, old Gordan!!!

Guess they would have to release another class of license to the general public to allow them to sell commercially. I think I remember reading that some other states have this in place.

On another note; if this ever does happen, NPWS better hire a few more people. I think there would be a huge flood of license applications.

And if "poor, old Gordon" registered a business and paid tax on his income, he would be able to advertise and sell them as a pet store...

But then again, "poor, old Gordon" probably doesnt want to pay any tax on his income, or go to the trouble of maintaining the accounts and additional records that businesses have to keep...

Sounds a bit to me like "poor, old Gordon" from down the street is a bit of a backyard breeder

 

[Lozza]

And if "poor, old Gordon" registered a business and paid tax on his income, he would be able to advertise and sell them as a pet store...

But then again, "poor, old Gordon" probably doesnt want to pay any tax on his income, or go to the trouble of maintaining the accounts and additional records that businesses have to keep...

Sounds a bit to me like "poor, old Gordon" from down the street is a bit of a backyard breeder

I think he may have been trying to say that the everyday "Gordon" should be able to apply for a commercial licence as well as pet shops. Currently in NSW you are not allowed to make a business out of breeding and you are only allowed to advertise animals in a Herpetological Society publication. The point of the post was (imo) that it wouldn't be fair if pet shops were suddenly allowed more avenues when they usually know very little about reptiles, whereas breeders who have put in the hard yards for many years and are quite knowledgable are not afforded these same avenues.

On another note, some pet shops imo shouldnt be allowed to sell ANY animals due to the appalling conditions they keep regular domestic dogs & cats in (let alone specialist animals such as reptiles & amphibians).

 

[peterjohnson64]

Why has everybody assume dthat "Gordan" WONT be able to sell his animals any way he wishes. I have specifically not used the word "commercially" because it has a legal meaning when it comes to fauna dealing. But it was virtually unanimous that the 6 month rule and advertising ban should be removed in line with animals going in to pet shops. So Gordon would be able to buy an animal and sell it tomorrow and advertise all his baby beardies in the trading post. (but still not operate commercially as defined by the Act)

But again, as I have stated, this discussion was had many months ago. If you weren't a part of it then then you need to seriously consider attending herp society meetings and getting your self onto a committee. I know that Mac Herps is screaming for committee members.

 

[JasonL]

It will, initially at least, be great for those breeders who breed BD's and childrens and the like, they will be able to sell whole clutches at premium "whole clutch prices" to the petshops, so the petshops can sell them at rediculous prices to the un knowledged public... so for me it would be financially great, but I'm still against it.

 

[wokka]

I find it ridiculous that a petshop should be able to do one course and then be able to hold a large number of reptiles and give other people advise about them.

Why? Private keepers have to do no course to hold large numbers of animals and give other people advice about them.

 

[CodeRed]

I am glad you put "initially" with that Jason. A lot of the pet store owners I know are getting ready for the new opportunities by starting to breed their own animals (on their private licenses). By the time the legislation comes into effect they should have sorted out how to breed beardies and children's pythons etc and will have reduced their dependance on existing breeders.

 

[Jason]

I think a one day course on how to look after reptiles is ALOT more then the large majority of current keepers! i keep and have kept a fair few animals and i have never done a course.... does that make me unfit to keep and breed my animals??

The idea that people believe animals will be neglected is in my opinion a joke... how on earth does a business that sells animals going to benefit from neglect??

Obviously people that are against it have no idea f the current state of exotic market and wild courght animals being held by uninformed people.... i can honestly say that atleast 50% of people that would walk into the shop asking for assistance is after advise on how to look after their chameleon, boa, corn or slider. a large proportion of the rest come in with animals they have found and want to set up for them... but they straight up refuse to spend money.

seems to me alot of people need to get out from behind there computor screen and go outside and see what is really happening.

why is it the fault of the junior shop assistant that that little jimies snake died when he has just as much access to books etc to learn for himself. the people that will have issues are the lazy ones who want all the advise spoon fed to them like the large proportion of new young keepers these days, when something goes wrong it couldnt possibly be there fault could it???

people have no idea of the number of people that come in saying they know what they need to know, go home just to come back a day later complaining there animal died just to turn around and say that advise wasn't given at the tie of purchase. happens quite alot! here is a typical cenario:

customer: hi id like that fish.

sales assistant: no worries, do you have an established tank that has been running for more then a week or two?

customer: yes

sales assistant: have you tested the water for ammonia, nitrate, nitrite and pH as well as understand how to properly maintain the tank

customer: yes, i have kept fish for years.

sales assistant; goes on to catch the fish etc

next day customer comes back angry cause the fish is dead, you ask for a water sample, it test BAD. you tell them what the prob is and they get even angrie cause they claim they were not given the advise needed to keep the fish and deney being offered any advise.
this is a simple example of the incompetance of the large majority of shoppers... its not the shops fault for the lack of intelligence of the customers.

reptiles will be in shops eventually... step back and look at it from both sides. all the alligations of shops doing the wrong thing may be true in a small number of cases but all the arguments oposing it are not very well supported.

 

[Wild~Touch]

Maybe they should do a course?

It's mandatory here in Queensland....but unfortunately it makes no difference to some pet shop owners/staff

It leaves a lot to be desired....personally I think its heartbreaking

Cheers
Sandee

 

[aussie.snakes]

Why? Private keepers have to do no course to hold large numbers of animals and give other people advice about them.

I am speaking of someone who is only new to keeping reptiles (just like most petshop owners will be). New private keepers usually don't start off with a large collection. They are also not trying to sell their animals to other people.

 

[peterjohnson64]

There is now doubt that pet shops will need a fauna dealers licence to sell reptiles. The industry has already put up a code of conduct. In our submission we commented on the problems in Victoria but also ssaid we believe that SA has very good shops and we could certainly learn from them. There will certainly NOT be large numbers of pet shops selling reptiles.

Personally I hope they DON'T restrict the species sold to very basic ones. It then providesd us with a barrier to entry that will keep unskilled shops out of it. This has already been proven with the fauna dealers licence system with birds in NSW. Basic shops don;t bother so if you want a Black Cockatoo from a pet shop you ahve a very limited number that can stock them (I think Miranda Gott said it was arounn 25 state wide).

We are aiming to create barriers to entry that will keep the number of reptile shops very low as well whilst not breaching restraint of trade provisions that have already been mentioned.

 

[mungus]

It will, initially at least, be great for those breeders who breed BD's and childrens and the like, they will be able to sell whole clutches at premium "whole clutch prices" to the petshops, so the petshops can sell them at rediculous prices to the un knowledged public... so for me it would be financially great, but I'm still against it.

Agree 100%

 

[coz666]

i guess it depends on what you call a pet store............... iam a herp shop and an aquarium.
i am not a petstore. i dont like the petshops being able to sell.
i breed what i sell
and i have an aquarium because it is just not viable to just sell reptiles in brisbane. you need some other base to keep the rent paid.
that is a problem i dont think people realize.
you cant tell me with the restrictions we have in brisbane that you would be able to have a successfull business and keep a good name by selling all the cheap herps.
we can only sell childrens spotteds and stimmo
beardies blacksoils and central netteds
levi levi undewoods amyae asper
blueys pinky and cunninghams
and a few turtles.
now i do breed nearly all those, so i know what i am doing and feel i give as much info to clients.
but most people will not support my store because they see it as a petshop.
so , opening up a herp shop in brisbane ... because it needed one in my area... for me was a good idea.
so if i opened up my next store in nsw,,,, i would have the same predjudaces put on me.
i am sure if i advertised for a partner who would like to open up a sister store in nsw, there would be plenty of takers but the dissapointment out ways the excitement.
so thats why the petshops end up with all the customers. and everyone pays through the roof and walks out with 20 things they did not need.
not in my store.
herp specific stores only should be allowed. for sure.

 

[JasonL]

I am glad you put "initially" with that Jason. A lot of the pet store owners I know are getting ready for the new opportunities by starting to breed their own animals (on their private licenses). By the time the legislation comes into effect they should have sorted out how to breed beardies and children's pythons etc and will have reduced their dependance on existing breeders.

yeah well, it will take a few years before the public realise that Bearded Dragons are hard to keep alive ( refering to non reptile people) and if they do, they eat too much, untill then they will be a massive hit with the shops, for the first couple of years, no one will be able to supply enough to the sucker public.