bredli ruined now aswell

[Bax155]

just to comment on a few of the things said in this thread:

Bredls jags are virtually never red, I have seen many in person and there was not a red scale on any of them. The pics posted at teh start of this thread are either an anomaly or they were photoshopped, I know the site they came from and they have a history of suspicious pics that appear to be color enhanced.

On the issue of jag prices plummeting, its true and has already happened, you can curerently get them for as litttle as a few hundred dollars, people are startng to sell them to wholesalers and this year they will be even less.

The jag crossing fad here is dying quickly, but the damge is done now.

The state of our captive gene pool over here was already bad but now its a catastrophe, there are three and four way crosses being dumped into the pet trade with no background, and no accountability. In just a couple of years they managed to crosses those dam jags to every subspeicies that we have available and even GTPs.

In addtion I never see anyone on this forum talk about the nuerological problems that jags have. The fact is that along with this mutation many jags develope these problems and in some cases it can be severe, animals have tremors and what almost seem like seizures, particularily when they are exited or stressed.

Australian keepers should really think hard before they rush to imitate whats gone on in the USA and Europe.

I see the pro-hybrid peopl on this forum making the same tired excuses for the practice I see poeple make over here. If you want to see what uncontrolled crossing will do to your hobby, just look over here. After nearly 20 years of people doing it over here its now very difficult to even find pure carpet subspecies. There are thousands of carpets prodcued here every year and there is almost no backggroiund information on most of them.

There are still pure lines around but you have to do a good deal of research to find them and pretty much have to assume that the large majority of unknows are tainted.

Is this really the way you want your hobby to go in Australia? and for what, some flashy jag crosses that nobody is going to give a crap about in a few years anyway?

Nick

Glad someone from the US has finally commented on this topic, EVERYONE should read Nick Mutton's post and listen to what he is saying, as Nick is more qualified to comment on this topic then any of us Aussie keepers having witnessed the outcomes first hand!!
Nick produces some of the best Bredli I have seen from the US and if you have seen some of his collection of Bredli there is no way you would condone or want to buy one of these mungrel Bredli wanna be pythons, even putting the Bredli in its description is a slur on the Bredli name, ALL crosses should be given completly new name's so as not to confuse or associate with what they originally came from!! Thats my 2 bobs worth anyway
Cheers
Bax

 

[Fester]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, talk of hybrids, cross-breds, mongrels etc but isn't a "jag" on its own (not cross-bred with pure bloods) just a mutation of the breeding of two pure blood animals??

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Jags have been bred to all sub species of carpet pythons and diamond pythons also scrub pythons and green tree pythons ,
Once there were supposedly pure coastal jags, but even from the beginning jags were suspected to be hybrids ,
the current jags getting around are hybrids Fester .

 

[disasterpiece7.0]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, talk of hybrids, cross-breds, mongrels etc but isn't a "jag" on its own (not cross-bred with pure bloods) just a mutation of the breeding of two pure blood animals??

It's supposedly a random mutation from two mcdowelli, but whether they were really mcdowelli or something mislabelled or something entirely different (sucha s irian jaya x mcdowelli) is not known 100% for certain by anyone except the man that bred the first one.

 

[Lewy]

OFSS Give it up already

Isn't every one just sic to death of this stupid argument!!!! We just got to face the fact that there are people out there who just want to ruin the best looking pythons in the world by crossing them. Sad realy!!!

Lewy

 

[Fester]

I always thought that it was reported that it was Jan Eric Engell that first named the "jag".
Most have probably read this anyway but interesting none the less, about quarter way down in English:
http://www.jaguarpython.dk/index.php?id=67,0,0,1,0,0

 

[draqonfly]

if its against the rules for me to swear, if its against the rules for me to promote illegal activity, it should also be against the rules to post topics like this as well. because breeding of hybrids is illegal in australia, its against the law as nearly everyone knows by now... if i know, everyone knows. putting hybrid topics like this plays up peoples behaviours, causing stress and also introducing these morphs to those virgins of breeding like meself.

strawberry milkshake dipped in chocolate pudding with sprinkles of msg !!! coconut balls !!!:evil:

 

[Retic]

Yes you are correct.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, talk of hybrids, cross-breds, mongrels etc but isn't a "jag" on its own (not cross-bred with pure bloods) just a mutation of the breeding of two pure blood animals??

 

[ryanharvey1993]

hybrid or not its still a crapet. looks nice though

 

[Fester]

if its against the rules for me to swear, if its against the rules for me to promote illegal activity, it should also be against the rules to post topics like this as well. because breeding of hybrids is illegal in australia, its against the law as nearly everyone knows by now... if i know, everyone knows. putting hybrid topics like this plays up peoples behaviours, causing stress and also introducing these morphs to those virgins of breeding like meself.
:evil:

The original post to this thread is about "jags"! Who is talking about hybrids???
If you had a pure blood male Bredli and a pure blood female Bredli and one offspring was
something really unusual, would you call that a hybrid or a mongrel??

 

[funcouple]

if its against the rules for me to swear, if its against the rules for me to promote illegal activity, it should also be against the rules to post topics like this as well. because breeding of hybrids is illegal in australia, its against the law as nearly everyone knows by now... if i know, everyone knows. putting hybrid topics like this plays up peoples behaviours, causing stress and also introducing these morphs to those virgins of breeding like meself.

strawberry milkshake dipped in chocolate pudding with sprinkles of msg !!! coconut balls !!!:evil:

so true and well said. hope mr slateman reads this and takes note.

 

[AUSGECKO]

All you young Reptile Keepers out there, just don't care one bit about the future of our Reptile's, you only think of how much money you can pocket by creating new color morpth or hybrid species and giving them all these new fancy names, just to make others think you have a new subspecies, by cross-breeding our beautiful Carpet-Stimpson-Childreni-Woma-Black-Headed Python's.

WOW! I read alot of dumb un-educated posts in this thread but this one has to take the cake! :lol::lol::lol: Get off your walking frame old man, pull your head out of your *** and take a sniff of reality!!! :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Den from Den Pythons]

Get over it peoples..... Jags are a poor mans morph..... no cutting edge, not difficult to produce.... co-dom morphs are mass produced easier than any others. Mark my words, the price of jags wont just drop, they drive themselves into the ground, one jag male can produce hundreds of jags a year. When jags are a dime a dozen (which they will be) all the jokers who thought that hybridising them was where it was at, will realise the fad had a life-span shorter than ostrich farming. The smuggling, the shaddow games, will all have a pay day, short as it may be... the hoardes that jump on the bandwagon.... suckers is a term that comes to mind. Jags will be run of the mill before they surface, if you dont already have an adult jag, you will have missed the boat. The mutt makers will call jags the grail, spose they will be.... a morph sub-specifically questionable right back to day dot.

Your right mate, producing trick Jags would be no more difficult than selectively breeding already established pure stock. It's all selective breeding. I also agree, the presence of the co-dom gene means the whole process is sped up. I understand why people hate hybrids but I personally put Jags in a different category to those who hybridise for the hell of it. The co-dom gene puts them in a morph category for me. I enjoy reading about other peoples projects, even if they are overseas. Others see them as just mongrels and that's cool too, opinions vary....

Just sick of reading the same flogged to death quotes from people who hate them. It almost seems that some lurk around the forums just waiting for a Jag to be posted so they can re-spark the hybrid debate. All I’m saying to those people is "I know you are passionate about your opinions, you don't like Jags, that's cool. I heard you the 40th time"....

Not directed at you either mate, I know you aren't a lurker.

 

[draqonfly]

The original post to this thread is about "jags"! Who is talking about hybrids???
If you had a pure blood male Bredli and a pure blood female Bredli and one offspring was
something really unusual, would you call that a hybrid or a mongrel??

seriously i dont even know whats the meaning of a hybrid, mongrel or whatever... it doesnt matter to me to be honest. because what i see is this.... they're just snakes. i know theyre different species altogether or different whatever, but one thing for sure is... i dont lose sleep over this topic, and im sure many dont, but im also sure some do, because they take this topic to heart in the care of their hobby, or in the care of their beliefs.

my post was pointed at the whole of this thread and past threads.
threads that affected people, that affected some members on here, some off topics on chit chat threads were deleted. why not this? this may be healthy for debates, healthy to open the eyes for the good and bad of this topic... but its making some people upset. i havnt read all the posts in here, because there is too much to read and it doesnt tickle me.

i dont know much about breeding species of snakes because i got other things to worry about, and if i had the chance to know about things that relates to this topic, i wouldnt want to delve into, because its just a waste of time for me. for others its their passion, so they may take it to heart. thats one of the points why i think threads like this should be deleted always. but its not my call, its up to the moderators. they delete some threads bceause it affects members on this site or even not, but it suprises me why these threads dont get deleted. only they know why... i dont care no more.

thats all i gotta say...

cheers

 

[Ramsayi]

At least with threads like this......New keepers coming into the hobby get an understanding of why so many people are against them and others on the fence might be persuaded to make a stance.If it helps stem the flow of this rubbish then thats a good thing.

 

[Den from Den Pythons]

At least with threads like this......New keepers coming into the hobby get an understanding of why so many people are against them and others on the fence might be persuaded to make a stance.If it helps stem the flow of this rubbish then thats a good thing.

I know what you mean Rams but that's opinion based. People hate them and want others too aswell. The reasons for hating them are opinion based, the reasons for loving them are opinion based. All arguments for the against have positive replies for the person for it and vise versa. Both claim their 'evidence' is fact, both rebut that claim....

The smuggling thing... Against; Any Jag blood in aus is smuggled there for shouldn't be allowed... For; A great percentage of greens are from smuggled stock, they are accepted.

The wild population...Against; What if they get out, Australia will be ruined... For; No different to a none 'native to the area' python escaping.

They are just Hybrids...For: It's a morph, different to 'hybrid for the hell of it' (haha, my quote:lol... Against; Still a morph, illegal in most states.


There will always be people for and against most topics, animal related or not. I usually just watch or keep to myself, there are enough people pushing their opinions on the net. I did get sucked into this one though. Damn, should have just concentrated on my pms.

 

[Pythonking]

should have just concentrated on my pms.

man my missus has that it's such a pain sorry bad joke

 

[Ramsayi]

I know what you mean Rams but that's opinion based. People hate them and want others too aswell. The reasons for hating them are opinion based, the reasons for loving them are opinion based. All arguments for the against have positive replies for the person for it and vise versa. Both claim their 'evidence' is fact, both rebut that claim....

The smuggling thing... Against; Any Jag blood in aus is smuggled there for shouldn't be allowed... For; A great percentage of greens are from smuggled stock, they are accepted.

The wild population...Against; What if they get out, Australia will be ruined... For; No different to a none 'native to the area' python escaping.

They are just Hybrids...For: It's a morph, different to 'hybrid for the hell of it' (haha, my quote:lol... Against; Still a morph, illegal in most states.


There will always be people for and against most topics, animal related or not. I usually just watch or keep to myself, there are enough people pushing their opinions on the net. I did get sucked into this one though. Damn, should have just concentrated on my pms.

The main difference for the purist is that his breeding efforts affect no one down the line.On the other hand the hybrid mob (even if they are open and honest about it) will directly affect anyone looking for pure lines down the track.If each and every breeder decided to cross anything with everything then all we would end up with would be M.s.crap.

 

[ravan]

wow, they're quite gorgeous

 

[AUSGECKO]

man my missus has that it's such a pain sorry bad joke

:lol:Lol, So has mine,Im currently hiding under the kitchen table with the laptop!:lol::lol::lol: