POLL - Keeping Exotic Species in Australia

[Mayhem]

We will never have legal exotics in this country, no matter how much some people want to whinge about it being unfair! As for Nazi Germany? I can't see any link between not having exotic reptiles in Australia and Nazi ideology? Don't even start on the "prohibition drives the trade underground", you could say the same thing about any illegal trade, does that mean we leagalize all crimes so we can monitor them more closely?

My connection between nazi germany and the two is the apparent problem people have with being honest on these forums due to peer pressure.

I do agree, this poll isnt going to change the world, its just a poll on a forum for interests sake

 

[MrSpike]

I would not hesitate to keep a fair few exotic species if they where legalized...

 

[Mayhem]

talking openly and not being nitty picky here,but legalising them wont stop the illegal importation,thats a definate so i see your thinking that i will kind of wishful thinking

even with quarantine,it doesnt rule out diseases,alot of diseases can only be diagnosed from autopsied snakes,also the importation and quaratine will be costly,people illegally import green trees into aus because its cheaper than buying aussie bred ones,thats a fact,and gtp are legal here,yet still being smuggled in,this is my point,how do you think legalising exotics will prevent this from happening when test subjects like the gtp,s show it doesnt do squat to prevent it

Because the now established captive green tree python population in australia was started by the importation of illegal snakes, and it got so rife that changes to laws were required to monitor this. Importation will stop when the number of green pythons available from legal australian captive breeding increases a little more and therefore the prices drop, discouraging the need for importation.

That said, I have a green python and an international licence which is available on the QLD system, so if that exends to other species one day, I'll certainly be making use of it

 

[richardsc]

and a good topic to,not a fight,an open discussion,its interesting hearing peoples thoughts,weather you agree or not

 

[richardsc]

when the prices drop?um the prices have dropped,didnt stop it,also if exotics were legalised,i imagine there would be super expensive species,and the smuggling in will continue,as it always has,and it always will,,not all gtp,s are exotic in origin either

id like to hear how legalising will stop them being smuggled in,as so far ive heard nothing that supports that this will happen

 

[Mayhem]

when the prices drop?um the prices have dropped,didnt stop it,also if exotics were legalised,i imagine there would be super expensive species,and the smuggling in will continue,as it always has,and it always will,,not all gtp,s are exotic in origin either

id like to hear how legalising will stop them being smuggled in,as so far ive heard nothing that supports that this will happen

When the price drops down to below the $1000 mark I mean. You dont see people smuggling in cheap womas from the USA to Aus these days do you? Yes I agree it is still rather expensive, and until the price matches or closely matches the purchase price for the rest of the world, then smuggleing is a profitable venture.

Also, we're talking about legal importation, which in turn will control prices (of all exotics) because there is a limitless supply.

 

[euphorion]

unfortunately there is little to stop people smuggling the animals in even if they were legally kept here. some people will just always take the easy option, even if it means breaking the law.

 

[Colin]

IF exotics were legal then there would be a few animals for sure that I'd probably like to have but I think the bulk of my collection would remain australian natives. they are my favourite snakes over all and I haven't even explored half of the species of reptiles available here.

But the facts of the matter are exotics are NOT legal here and theres no way I would jepardise my whole collection of natives by keeping any illegal animals..

in my opinion we will never be legally allowed to import exotic reptiles from overseas countries or be allowed to legally keep exotics..

 

[Colin]

legalising them wont stop the illegal importation

I have to agree with this statement. to legally import animals is a very expensive venture, with quarantine costs, vet and laboratory testing costs, etc etc and to illegally smuggle an animal in would be way cheaper than to legally do it.. so the illegal trade would continue in my opinion and be far worse than it already is now.

 

[Mayhem]

I have to agree with this statement. to legally import animals is a very expensive venture, with quarantine costs, vet and laboratory testing costs, etc etc and to illegally smuggle an animal in would be way cheaper than to legally do it.. so the illegal trade would continue in my opinion and be far worse than it already is now.

How could it be far worse?

 

[richardsc]

you would have more chance of being able to export aussie animals over seas than bringing them into australia,and personally i cant even see that happening,its all good saying we should be able to keep exotics,but im still waiting to hear how it will put an end to the illegal importation of said exotics into australia

prices dropping im sorry doesnt cut it with me,plus it takes years for prices to drop,im yet to see gtp,s anywhere near 1000 dollars,2500 is the cheapest ive seen advertised,and adult prs are still fetching bucket loads

 

[euphorion]

could be worse by making is easier for those importing illegally to quickly move the animals on 'legally' to those with licences

 

[Colin]

How could it be far worse?

ok.. for example if there were legal importations of a particular species and these cleared quarantine and found their way into collections.. the next thing the blokes smuggling animals would bring in a shipment of these same species at greatly reduced prices and offer them to the blokes with the legal ones to "cover them" on their books...

there would be a "legal cover" for the illegal exotics that were smuggled in.. once they were "covered" by someone who legally possesses the species by saying they "bred them" etc they could be legally on sold.. it would open the floodgates in my opinion..

 

[megrim]

Legalising exotics won't completely stop smuggling. I doubt anything will completely stop smuggling.

The point a few of us are trying to make is that legalising them would at least lower the amount of smuggling going on. As was already pointed out, Womas are not smuggled into Australia, nor are carpets. Make them widly available, make them cheap and there will be no profit in illegally smuggling these animals, and the diseases they might carry.

 

[megrim]

,im yet to see gtp,s anywhere near 1000 dollars,2500 is the cheapest ive seen advertised,and adult prs are still fetching bucket loads

A clutch of GTP's went for $1800 on this very site a few weeks ago.

I have no idea on prices of most exotics in this country, but I've been offered corn snakes a few times now, and their prices are lower than most carpets. Admittedly I'm sure prices would shift if they were suddenly made legally obtainable, but the suggestion that prices have little to do with the smuggling problem is just silly.

I do agree though that the prices of actually importing and quarantining new animals would be pretty hefty, and chances are smuggling would still be the cheaper option. There is still the matter of the animals that are already in Australia, many of them for multiple generations.

 

[cris]

I have axolotlys, they are legal exotics. Im thinking about keeping some cane toads too, as far as i know i can legally keep them. I also keep AHGs but they are frozen.

If it were legal to get other species i would get some tortoises, poison dart frogs, Caecilians, tegus and a few Colubrids.

 

[Colin]

where there's money to be made.. whether its smuggling drugs, reptiles, guns, people whatever.. people will do it. and its extremely hard to stamp out.

the only way to decrease (they will never stop it entirely) reptile smuggling is to actually implement the fines and jail terms on all offenders.. that is fine them the $110,000 and give them the jail term as well.. If they don't have $110,000 then seize their house, and assets and sell them off just like the ATO does with excessive tax debts.

once this starts to happen I bet the smuggling grinds to a halt or slows down considerably overnight.

 

[Bushfire]

I dont think smuggling of reptiles in or out will ever stop either regardless of the legalities. I think before GTPs became more available people were just smuggling in whatever they can get but now they would just be more selective ie. different morphs, different localities, something unusual and rare. As long as we put more value on certain traits we will have people willing to take the risks. The same would go for all species as well. So how do we stop or at best minimise it and the risks?

I think even with a licensing system in place we wouldnt be able to minimise it. There will always be people not wanting to go through the whole quarantine issues. Look at the problems we already have with all the licensing systems; the black market for natives is still very high. I'd imagine that with exotics would be at best similar.

I clicked on yes I would keep exotics if legal so I guess that makes me part of the problem as long as there is a desire amongst keepers people will keep them and take all the risks to meet that desire.

 

[richardsc]

exactly,which is what has happened with gtp,s,adults were imported last season,because the guy lost his animals,so he thought smuggle more in and pass them off as the ones i lost,over seas gtp are cheap in comparison to aussie ones,22 grand for a pair versus smuggling a group of adults in from abroad for peanuts

 

[megrim]

where there's money to be made.. whether its smuggling drugs, reptiles, guns, people whatever.. people will do it. and its extremely hard to stamp out.

the only way to decrease (they will never stop it entirely) reptile smuggling is to actually implement the fines and jail terms on all offenders.. that is fine them the $110,000 and give them the jail term as well.. If they don't have $110,000 then seize their house, and assets and sell them off just like the ATO does with excessive tax debts.

once this starts to happen I bet the smuggling grinds to a halt or slows down considerably overnight.

I would also like to see this happen^. Currently the people who break these laws aren't really being given much in the way of harsh sentencing. I don't agree that it's the 'only' way to slow smuggling, but it would certainly be a step in the right direction.