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CountryTriton

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Why isn't there a breeders registry similar to canines or felines?
Allot of people here go on and off about how they don't like x-breeding and morphs. Why not start a registry for pure lines showing pedigree?
You'll end up with better quality animals and let the rouges/others be on-sold to pet shops.
As a novice I had/have no real way yet or the experience to tell a cross Darwin from a pure and would be prepared to pay that little extra to know I'm getting quality reps :D
 
Because besides dna testing theres nothing to go on besides someones word, so your starting registry itself would even be flawed let alone as it carries on.
 
It would be an awesome idea, as you would know who to steer clear of instead of not really knowing who is doing what on the sly, but putting this motion in place is a very difficult thing to achieve, and hence probably why its not been done before. Its too hard to regulate, police and put into place...etc etc...

Also, most hybridisers & hybrid keepers are almost "ashamed" to be known as that and that they do breed mutts etc, as it is shunned by the majority of the herp community... Really unless you already have a well-known good reputation built up for having pure good quality lines and animals, you will never really know whos selling you what....

And because of the ashamed hybridisers & hybrid keepers (yes there are a minor few who say it loud and say it proud that they do it) doing it on the sly etc, it makes it very hard for new breeders to get a good name for themselves as there is always going to be doubt and suspicion about whether its pure or not etc etc.... Hence the only ones you can really trust are the ones who have already made a name for themselves etc.

And also maybe try not to associate with the ones that do hybridise etc, because as the saying goes, "you will get tarred with the same brush" as them, just because you associate with them, even if you yourself dont do it and arent for it... i.e. if you hang around with prostitutes, you will be classed, labelled and even shunned as one as well even though you arent one yourself... sorry, only example I could think of at the time :oops: :lol:

JMO anyways...
 
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Lets not assume how anybody feels about what they do just because you don't agree.
I don't even breed snakes but if I did and I if crossbred, why on earth would I post about it knowing there are people out there who would call me a prostitute etc etc.

No, I would just go on doing what I want and selling it to whoever and staying quiet about it just because there are fundy's out there who would waffle on just like that.

That sort of 'Them and Us' mentality is forcing it into the underground where no one will know anything about 'pure' and where you won't be able to take anyones word for anything.

Unless you have a snake etc that you personally ripped off from the wild, no one can be sure of anything and even then no one who bought a baby from you could be absolutely sure either.

At least in the US etc (as far as I can see) they aren't ashamed of it and when you buy an animal that is crossbred, you are told and buy it under no false pretensions. They don't necessarily try to hide it. That's got to be slightly safer!
 
On the other hand, you should encourage it as much as possible....in a decade or so, pure bred snakes will be more desirable and you will be sitting pretty.

LOL
 
Lets not assume how anybody feels about what they do just because you don't agree.
I don't even breed snakes but if I did and I if crossbred, why on earth would I post about it knowing there are people out there who would call me a prostitute etc etc.

No, I would just go on doing what I want and selling it to whoever and staying quiet about it just because there are fundy's out there who would waffle on just like that.

That sort of 'Them and Us' mentality is forcing it into the underground where no one will know anything about 'pure' and where you won't be able to take anyones word for anything.

Unless you have a snake etc that you personally ripped off from the wild, no one can be sure of anything and even then no one who bought a baby from you could be absolutely sure either.

At least in the US etc (as far as I can see) they aren't ashamed of it and when you buy an animal that is crossbred, you are told and buy it under no false pretensions. They don't necessarily try to hide it. That's got to be slightly safer!

On the other hand, you should encourage it as much as possible....in a decade or so, pure bred snakes will be more desirable and you will be sitting pretty.

LOL



Ummm.... Are you completely batty??? No where did I ever say that I or YOU for that matter are called a prostitute by anyone "out there"!....Or did you just "Assume" that people would call me that from an avatar or profile pic? :rolleyes: Nor do I actually breed snakes yet either...weird, for someone accusing another about "assuming" stuff, you seem to assume alot yourself! :rolleyes: :lol: Oh hang on, wait, you are meaning it as hybrid breeders and keepers are prostitutes ;):lol:

Eitherway, you said yourself, even if you did breed hybrids etc, you wouldnt post on here, because people would scorn/shun you for it, isnt that not showing that you would be even the slightest bit ashamed, if not scared of what others think etc... and hence giving a damn about your reputation as a breeder? The fact that straight after saying that, you then go on to say that you dont care what others think and you will do what you want to anyways, is fairly contradictory IMHO, quite strange really:? Why would you be scared to post that stuff and keep it quiet if you dont care what anyone thinks?:| Very weird, just because their are people who have an opinion that is different to your own? :rolleyes:

And with the whole assume thing, I'm not assuming anything or implying that is how you feel, but clearly there are people who are ashamed to show their faces when it comes to the hybrid debate, I have witnessed it many a time on various threads, EXAMPLE scenario: They come on here all proud and bragging about their new hybrid addition, and then when people say they dont like them etc then they run away tail between their legs saying that if they had of known before they bought it and had more knowledge under their belt etc then they never would have done it and they are not going to breed it anymore etc etc when they clearly had plans to breed from it etc etc... I didnt say EVERY hybrid breeder/keeper, I said most (from what I have seen) and I did state that YES there are ones that dont care and freely voice it regardless of if they get flamed or people disagree with them on the subject, take QLDMorelias for example :lol: He didnt care at all... So dont just ASSUME yourself that I Assumed anything just because I have it clearly stated that I am against hybrids!

By fundy's do you insinuate that I am purely in this for the money? Or errr...what? Im sorry Im not up with your oldschool lingo LOL! In the words of Pauline Hanson, Please Explain!?:lol:

By the "Them/Us" mentality I was apparently using, I was not saying that in the way you were meaning it, I purely meant it in the fashion of hybrid breeders/keepers as compared to myself who doesnt own or breed a hybrid and hence meaning exactly that, nothing more! Just because I have it clearly stated in my sig that I am against Hybrids etc, dont ASSUME that everything I post is in the "Them/Us" mentality fashion! I am in no way saying that hybrid breeders cant speak out about the fact that they breed hybrids, I WANT to know who they are! I have no problem whatsoever if they speak out....

Oh and err... its already at the "you cant take anyones word" thing anyways, you said it yourself, *I bolded it for ease and your personal viewing pleasure ;)*

Incase you didnt read it the first time around, I said that it is impossible to put this system in place! And the only way you can ALMOST be sure, is to go to who you know and trust! But no NEW breeders will really get that chance or have that reputation that the others that have been in it for a longer period of time (OH NO! I'm using "the others/new people" mentality! Somebody stop me!"). I also implied that it couldnt be put into place by saying that "it would be an awesome IDEA...BUT..." etc etc

Just because in the US majority openly state what they are(whether they are hybrids - oh no! said "they" again!Dang it!") , doesnt mean there still arent money hungry evil things that wont label them as something they are not! Just the same in Aus or any country, there are always going to be dishonest money hungry people doing the wrong thing, so that really solves NOTHING! Thanks for trying tho!;)


HAH! And where exactly did I try and encourage anything? I am not a well known breeder, so I dont see how I will be sitting pretty! Just because it is clearly advertised that I *hate/dislike* pretty much anything hybrid in the reptile world (thats right even platinum macs dont appeal to me - SOME see those as an intergrade between spotties and stimmies, I really couldnt care tho as I just dont really like spotteds to begin with, nor am I a fan of Port Mac's or even diamonds - Just dont like diamonds or spotteds that much - Personal taste, just like everyone, I have it...), doesnt mean anything really, because not once did I imply that I was in it for the money, even breeding snakes or anything to start with! And just to be clear, Im in it for the love, not the money! I hate people who are just in it for the money! I was also offering ways that he could get good quality and pure animals and stuff like that, not encouraging at all... Just suggesting possible options...Not saying they will or wont work, but its gotta be a bit more handy esp. if he is thinking about breeding snakes in the future...Not saying you have to do it that way either, do what you want to, Im not the police or anything...

You assume way too much honey! Much more than I ever did!:lol: I said JMO meaning JUST MY OPINION! Not assuming anything or saying that is how it is full stop its a FACT....Merely that that is my OPINION...:rolleyes: Geez

Sorry for the essay, but Im sure you will enjoy reading it just as much as I enjoyed writing it... Really good way to vent sometimes!;) But you already know coz you did it yourself just then, making a mountain out of a mole hill on your merry horse you have there thinking you know everything and what I meant etc. I think you read into it too much and read things how you want them to say etc etc... but then again, thats JMO...not fact!

Phew! That feels better, rant over...for now...

BAHAHAHA and you thought my first post in this thread was waffling on! :lol::lol::lol: You wanted waffle, I just gave you one with maple syrup and all! Theres something worthy of the word, worth whinging about! HAH!:rolleyes::lol:
 
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I keep a record of all my snakes, who the original breeder was and if known their parents, locale etc. And any I breed myself I keep records of who the parents were, grandparents etc just for my own records. It always helps when considering future matings between animals I own.

Although maybe not an official pedigree, I would assume most people would also have similar details for their own animals?

As far as an "official" database record, it sounds ok in principle providing all the information that goes into it is 100% correct, which in reality may not always be the case. If you actually know the origins of your animals thats great and a good start, but as many animals we own have unsubstantiated origins and were bought as this locale or that etc on hearsay and without evidence that could be considered proof.. and if these were submitted into a pedigree database it could well be flawed from the start.

you only have to look at the controversy that surrounds some species like diamonds for example.
 
Look at the amount of smuggled greens that have been legitimised and put on the books recently, it would be no different with a pedigree and wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on IMO.
 
It would quite clearly never work as it would all come down to the honesty of the breeder and anyone who has been in this game for any length of time knows what goes on. Nice idea but totally unworkable.
 
Ummm.... Are you completely batty??? No where did I ever say that I or YOU for that matter are called a prostitute by anyone "out there"!....Or did you just "Assume" that people would call me that from an avatar or profile pic? :rolleyes: Nor do I actually breed snakes yet either...weird, for someone accusing another about "assuming" stuff, you seem to assume alot yourself! :rolleyes: :lol: Oh hang on, wait, you are meaning it as hybrid breeders and keepers are prostitutes ;):lol:

Eitherway, you said yourself, even if you did breed hybrids etc, you wouldnt post on here, because people would scorn/shun you for it, isnt that not showing that you would be even the slightest bit ashamed, if not scared of what others think etc... and hence giving a damn about your reputation as a breeder? The fact that straight after saying that, you then go on to say that you dont care what others think and you will do what you want to anyways, is fairly contradictory IMHO, quite strange really:? Why would you be scared to post that stuff and keep it quiet if you dont care what anyone thinks?:| Very weird, just because their are people who have an opinion that is different to your own? :rolleyes:

And with the whole assume thing, I'm not assuming anything or implying that is how you feel, but clearly there are people who are ashamed to show their faces when it comes to the hybrid debate, I have witnessed it many a time on various threads, EXAMPLE scenario: They come on here all proud and bragging about their new hybrid addition, and then when people say they dont like them etc then they run away tail between their legs saying that if they had of known before they bought it and had more knowledge under their belt etc then they never would have done it and they are not going to breed it anymore etc etc when they clearly had plans to breed from it etc etc... I didnt say EVERY hybrid breeder/keeper, I said most (from what I have seen) and I did state that YES there are ones that dont care and freely voice it regardless of if they get flamed or people disagree with them on the subject, take QLDMorelias for example :lol: He didnt care at all... So dont just ASSUME yourself that I Assumed anything just because I have it clearly stated that I am against hybrids!

By fundy's do you insinuate that I am purely in this for the money? Or errr...what? Im sorry Im not up with your oldschool lingo LOL! In the words of Pauline Hanson, Please Explain!?:lol:

By the "Them/Us" mentality I was apparently using, I was not saying that in the way you were meaning it, I purely meant it in the fashion of hybrid breeders/keepers as compared to myself who doesnt own or breed a hybrid and hence meaning exactly that, nothing more! Just because I have it clearly stated in my sig that I am against Hybrids etc, dont ASSUME that everything I post is in the "Them/Us" mentality fashion! I am in no way saying that hybrid breeders cant speak out about the fact that they breed hybrids, I WANT to know who they are! I have no problem whatsoever if they speak out....

Oh and err... its already at the "you cant take anyones word" thing anyways, you said it yourself, *I bolded it for ease and your personal viewing pleasure ;)*

Incase you didnt read it the first time around, I said that it is impossible to put this system in place! And the only way you can ALMOST be sure, is to go to who you know and trust! But no NEW breeders will really get that chance or have that reputation that the others that have been in it for a longer period of time (OH NO! I'm using "the others/new people" mentality! Somebody stop me!"). I also implied that it couldnt be put into place by saying that "it would be an awesome IDEA...BUT..." etc etc

Just because in the US majority openly state what they are(whether they are hybrids - oh no! said "they" again!Dang it!") , doesnt mean there still arent money hungry evil things that wont label them as something they are not! Just the same in Aus or any country, there are always going to be dishonest money hungry people doing the wrong thing, so that really solves NOTHING! Thanks for trying tho!;)


HAH! And where exactly did I try and encourage anything? I am not a well known breeder, so I dont see how I will be sitting pretty! Just because it is clearly advertised that I *hate/dislike* pretty much anything hybrid in the reptile world (thats right even platinum macs dont appeal to me - SOME see those as an intergrade between spotties and stimmies, I really couldnt care tho as I just dont really like spotteds to begin with, nor am I a fan of Port Mac's or even diamonds - Just dont like diamonds or spotteds that much - Personal taste, just like everyone, I have it...), doesnt mean anything really, because not once did I imply that I was in it for the money, even breeding snakes or anything to start with! And just to be clear, Im in it for the love, not the money! I hate people who are just in it for the money! I was also offering ways that he could get good quality and pure animals and stuff like that, not encouraging at all... Just suggesting possible options...Not saying they will or wont work, but its gotta be a bit more handy esp. if he is thinking about breeding snakes in the future...Not saying you have to do it that way either, do what you want to, Im not the police or anything...

You assume way too much honey! Much more than I ever did!:lol: I said JMO meaning JUST MY OPINION! Not assuming anything or saying that is how it is full stop its a FACT....Merely that that is my OPINION...:rolleyes: Geez

Sorry for the essay, but Im sure you will enjoy reading it just as much as I enjoyed writing it... Really good way to vent sometimes!;) But you already know coz you did it yourself just then, making a mountain out of a mole hill on your merry horse you have there thinking you know everything and what I meant etc. I think you read into it too much and read things how you want them to say etc etc... but then again, thats JMO...not fact!

Phew! That feels better, rant over...for now...

BAHAHAHA and you thought my first post in this thread was waffling on! :lol::lol::lol: You wanted waffle, I just gave you one with maple syrup and all! Theres something worthy of the word, worth whinging about! HAH!:rolleyes::lol:

Ah....I don't know what to say.....Brickwall/Head .....Ah! That feels better.

LOL
 
Ummm.... Are you completely batty??? No where did I ever say that I or YOU for that matter are called a prostitute by anyone "out there"!....Or did you just "Assume" that people would call me that from an avatar or profile pic? :rolleyes: Nor do I actually breed snakes yet either...weird, for someone accusing another about "assuming" stuff, you seem to assume alot yourself! :rolleyes: :lol: Oh hang on, wait, you are meaning it as hybrid breeders and keepers are prostitutes ;):lol:

Eitherway, you said yourself, even if you did breed hybrids etc, you wouldnt post on here, because people would scorn/shun you for it, isnt that not showing that you would be even the slightest bit ashamed, if not scared of what others think etc... and hence giving a damn about your reputation as a breeder? The fact that straight after saying that, you then go on to say that you dont care what others think and you will do what you want to anyways, is fairly contradictory IMHO, quite strange really:? Why would you be scared to post that stuff and keep it quiet if you dont care what anyone thinks?:| Very weird, just because their are people who have an opinion that is different to your own? :rolleyes:

And with the whole assume thing, I'm not assuming anything or implying that is how you feel, but clearly there are people who are ashamed to show their faces when it comes to the hybrid debate, I have witnessed it many a time on various threads, EXAMPLE scenario: They come on here all proud and bragging about their new hybrid addition, and then when people say they dont like them etc then they run away tail between their legs saying that if they had of known before they bought it and had more knowledge under their belt etc then they never would have done it and they are not going to breed it anymore etc etc when they clearly had plans to breed from it etc etc... I didnt say EVERY hybrid breeder/keeper, I said most (from what I have seen) and I did state that YES there are ones that dont care and freely voice it regardless of if they get flamed or people disagree with them on the subject, take QLDMorelias for example :lol: He didnt care at all... So dont just ASSUME yourself that I Assumed anything just because I have it clearly stated that I am against hybrids!

By fundy's do you insinuate that I am purely in this for the money? Or errr...what? Im sorry Im not up with your oldschool lingo LOL! In the words of Pauline Hanson, Please Explain!?:lol:

By the "Them/Us" mentality I was apparently using, I was not saying that in the way you were meaning it, I purely meant it in the fashion of hybrid breeders/keepers as compared to myself who doesnt own or breed a hybrid and hence meaning exactly that, nothing more! Just because I have it clearly stated in my sig that I am against Hybrids etc, dont ASSUME that everything I post is in the "Them/Us" mentality fashion! I am in no way saying that hybrid breeders cant speak out about the fact that they breed hybrids, I WANT to know who they are! I have no problem whatsoever if they speak out....

Oh and err... its already at the "you cant take anyones word" thing anyways, you said it yourself, *I bolded it for ease and your personal viewing pleasure ;)*

Incase you didnt read it the first time around, I said that it is impossible to put this system in place! And the only way you can ALMOST be sure, is to go to who you know and trust! But no NEW breeders will really get that chance or have that reputation that the others that have been in it for a longer period of time (OH NO! I'm using "the others/new people" mentality! Somebody stop me!"). I also implied that it couldnt be put into place by saying that "it would be an awesome IDEA...BUT..." etc etc

Just because in the US majority openly state what they are(whether they are hybrids - oh no! said "they" again!Dang it!") , doesnt mean there still arent money hungry evil things that wont label them as something they are not! Just the same in Aus or any country, there are always going to be dishonest money hungry people doing the wrong thing, so that really solves NOTHING! Thanks for trying tho!;)


HAH! And where exactly did I try and encourage anything? I am not a well known breeder, so I dont see how I will be sitting pretty! Just because it is clearly advertised that I *hate/dislike* pretty much anything hybrid in the reptile world (thats right even platinum macs dont appeal to me - SOME see those as an intergrade between spotties and stimmies, I really couldnt care tho as I just dont really like spotteds to begin with, nor am I a fan of Port Mac's or even diamonds - Just dont like diamonds or spotteds that much - Personal taste, just like everyone, I have it...), doesnt mean anything really, because not once did I imply that I was in it for the money, even breeding snakes or anything to start with! And just to be clear, Im in it for the love, not the money! I hate people who are just in it for the money! I was also offering ways that he could get good quality and pure animals and stuff like that, not encouraging at all... Just suggesting possible options...Not saying they will or wont work, but its gotta be a bit more handy esp. if he is thinking about breeding snakes in the future...Not saying you have to do it that way either, do what you want to, Im not the police or anything...

You assume way too much honey! Much more than I ever did!:lol: I said JMO meaning JUST MY OPINION! Not assuming anything or saying that is how it is full stop its a FACT....Merely that that is my OPINION...:rolleyes: Geez

Sorry for the essay, but Im sure you will enjoy reading it just as much as I enjoyed writing it... Really good way to vent sometimes!;) But you already know coz you did it yourself just then, making a mountain out of a mole hill on your merry horse you have there thinking you know everything and what I meant etc. I think you read into it too much and read things how you want them to say etc etc... but then again, thats JMO...not fact!

Phew! That feels better, rant over...for now...

BAHAHAHA and you thought my first post in this thread was waffling on! :lol::lol::lol: You wanted waffle, I just gave you one with maple syrup and all! Theres something worthy of the word, worth whinging about! HAH!:rolleyes::lol:
have you ever heard of zoloft?:D
 
OK, I've just started the Australian Reptile Breeders Association ( A.R.B.A.), all you breeders who only breed reptiles that have been legally collected within 500 meters of each other, please send me $100 for your membership.
 
Ishah,

I think you'll find that the 'general public' don't really care about whether their pet python is pure or a crossbreed and in fact they may even prefer hybrids for the 'coolness' factor. Every other animal keeping hobby that has gone mainstream is flooded with hybrids for many reasons. Try finding a locality specific group of frontosa in your local fish store and you may see what I mean. I've lost count of the number of herp club meetings I've been to where someone has brought along a python to ask 'Do you think this a such-and such carpet' They'll get many opinions and eventually pick the one they like the best or the group consensus. I've seen MD's and Darwin's (to name a couple) that look like nothing more than coastals.

It seems to me that many who support crossbreeding don't bother with many of the local forums so I think the online community is not fully representative of the whole herping world. They still manage to sell all their hatchies regardless of what we (eg APS) thinks.

In Maree's defence, i believe it was you who first made reference to prostitutes. I think a better analogy may have been to criminals/drug dealers etc as personally, I don't think prostitutes should be shunned or labelled as in reality it is just a job and quite legal (usually)
 
Haha maybe you will have bashed some braincells back into that empty head of yours hey maree? No wonder you feel better! ;) :lol:

LOL Whyme, as far as I knew, zoloft is for depression;).... Not 100% on whether it makes a good calmative tho... Maybe you can tell us more on that :) I would have thought valium would be better ;)

Tsubakai, yes I made reference to prostitutes, but I was purely using it as an EXAMPLE only, not calling anyone anything... I feel it is more suitable example for being "tarred with the same brush" I wasn't meaning it at all in the sense of legalities etc like you seem to have thought... But moreso that you are more likely to get tarred with the same brush hanging out with pros than say your example of crims etc... I know that it is just a job etc for them, hence that is not the fashion/sense I meant it in, I know people who are pros and I have nothing really against them at all, its usually a last resort, but some people do have problems with them and its usually the pros who do it to buy more drugs etc that give them a bad name to those people. But this is going off topic fast, so lets just save that for a whole new thread....

But I seriously dont have the time or patience to be explaining further on everything I write and having to justify what I say to people who simply cant understand etc. I really couldnt care less... I came to this thread stating a relatively unbiased opinion giving possible options and possible advice and the mentally challenged decided to make it into a personal attack and slinging match and turn it into something it clearly wasnt...Making a mountain out of a mole hill...So have fun with that, Im sure you will find a way to amuse yourself with that ;)
 
Oh Yes Ishah, I have learned quite a bit from this little convo.

Cheers
 
just wondering ishah. do you have any hybrids in your collection, or are they all 100% true bloods. Zoloft is not just for depression, its also for highly strung, lippy individuals who cant keep their temper in check:D
 
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