OPMV defamation

[Eiroc]

i have wondered this. but wouldnt it go further than luke(iceman) collection? if OPMV is proved it must of been introduced into lukes collection by a snake that came from where??

Exactly!

And if any of these pepole making allegations knew Iceman and his snake's history, they would know that this introduction would not be possible. So OMPV - very unlikely!
Prove it, or get a life guys!

 

[Sdaji]

The vet report will presumably be another one of those things which effectively says nothing more than "Yep, the snake was dead, we can't tell what killed it, so hey, perhaps it was OPMV". When it's worded more like "The death was consistent with OPMV" it seems more convincing, which is useful if you're charging money for it. Of course, they don't say "The death was consistent with extreme temperature exposure", they don't list the dozens of other possible causes, many of which are more likely than OPMV. They single out whatever happens to be the most in vogue disease at the time, which for the last few years has been OPMV. Nothing solid is known about OPMV. There is no consistent information available and no conclusive diagnostic tool, at least in this country.

 

[funcouple]

this so called inexperienced kid has gone to an experienced vet. this kid has waited weeks then told someone before he had the proof in his hand. this is his only inexperienced mistake. the part i dont understand is why luke (iceman) hasnt posted anything in his defence? i realise he may of been advised not to comment, but im sure he could at least post saying that he will comment once this is or isnt proved. its time all chillout and wait and see if the proof comes out before making any further comments which may harm more than one persons reputation

 

[Sdaji]

Exactly!

And if any of these pepole making allegations knew Iceman and his snake's history, they would know that this introduction would not be possible. So OMPV - very unlikely!
Prove it, or get a life guys!

Proof either way is impossible, but you don't need to have new snakes come into a collection to bring a disease in. One mite picked up from another collection could sit on your clothes, crawl on to one of your snakes, bite it and pass an infection on. I do agree entirely though - OPMV is very unlikely in this case.

Strangely, collections exposed to animals from all over the place, such as those used in shows and animals kept in pet shops don't seem particularly prone to getting diseases. These are by far the ones most likely to be exposed to diseases, but there are countless examples of animals kept without quarantine for 5-10 (or more) years which are continually exposed to animals from all over the country, which never get sick. Many of the presumed OPMV (and earlier, IBD/Crypto/etc) outbreaks have been in collections with good quarantine and no identifiable disease vector. Sometimes I think I'm wasting my time with quarantine, but strange things certainly do happen and until we understand it, which I can't see happening in less than 10 years and probably a lot more, I'm going to quarantine and never assume anything is safe, regardless of where it came from.

 

[kupper]

Gosh the age thing never gets old with people on aps. Pretty ridiculous really. 17 or not I'm pretty sure he'd be able to tell the difference between a water python and an olive python.

i knew what it was mate! I was simply posting up for a confirmation and to make a thread on a fourm whilst killing time , nobody had a dig at you or are you the 17 year old who doesnt know what a legal ramafication is?

 

[spilota_variegata]

If there is a vet's report stating the "death was consistent with OPMV," wouldn't it be wise for the person in question to quarantine their snakes for a reasonable period? Also, just to be sure, should all people who have purchased from this person be told to quarantine their snakes and keep a close eye on them?

I know if I slept with a girl that died with an illness consitent with HIV, I would like to be informed, regardless of the definitive diagnosis.

 

[seumas12345]

this so called inexperienced kid has gone to an experienced vet. this kid has waited weeks then told someone before he had the proof in his hand. this is his only inexperienced mistake. the part i dont understand is why luke (iceman) hasnt posted anything in his defence? i realise he may of been advised not to comment, but im sure he could at least post saying that he will comment once this is or isnt proved.

I think that in this case it's in his best interest just to wait until the vet report comes out... Until then everything that everyone says is just speculation... Only time will tell... I don't think it's a matter of blaming and punishing if the snake did have OPMV... Instead we need to focus on containing it so there isn't a widespread breakout (assuming it even was OPMV)...

 

[Freeloader]

So lets get this straight. How many Hatchie Stimsons have died? Out of a clutch of how many?

 

[Dan123]

this so called inexperienced kid has gone to an experienced vet

from the facts that have been thrown into this thread (true or not is another question) the kid does not in any way sound intelligent it sounds more like him and his mates have scored some free pythons off an experianced keeper who is sounding very concerned with the matter. and after the kid sorted out HIS biggest problem (money) he has decided to defame an honest, good willed & experianced keeper/breeder by telling his mates there was ompv involved. nobody has even confirmed exactaly what the vet report has said or even if there was one which most would think would be the first thing for the person with the (ompv) case to do, also why is the person/s spreading these rumors on this site not the person who purchased the pythons and made the inital claims.

then comes the question of the vet in question (if there is one). are they a reptile vet, are they a reputable one, how many times have they diagnosed a case of ompv, what experiance have they had with ompv in wild or captive reptiles and if they could give a 100% diagnosis of ompv or if it was an inconclusive post-mortem autopsy but from pre death symptoms (listed by the owner not wittnessed by the vet) gave a chance of ompv among other things but the kid has jumped the gun and told parts of the story leaving out other parts.

i think there needs to be a cross examination and the matter resolved in private and if in worst case ompv is confirmed then the breeder has already stated he is willing to take serious measures and i would say that would involve contacting all parties that have had contact with his collection.

 

[Eiroc]

I think the fact is that freighting reptiles at any stage is a risky business and although it's unfortunate, people loose them all the time. I think it was nice gesture that Iceman refunded the money although he wouldn't have been obilgated too (as he would have been peeved with a suspicious freight delivery).

As far as a vet is concerned, yes they are experts, but it is rare to find one that specialises in reptiles and or snakes. Most of the time, diseases are supsected and the story ends there with a death or best guess treatment. Identification usually results in a laboritory or universtity study/examination but it rarely goes down that path unless you spend a lot of money or know someone in the business.

Sorry the kid lost a pet, and I'm sorry that Iceman has to put up with a frustrating result whom i'm sure won't defend himself because he has done nothing wrong. I'm sure if that he is capable of doing the right thing if he suspected OMPV himself (which is more than I can say for some other breeders).

 

[CodeRed]

I like Tuesdays

 

[Dan123]

the part i dont understand is why luke (iceman) hasnt posted anything in his defence?

why should he. he never claimed anything and like everyone else involved he does not know the definate cause of death and is waiting for confirmed evidence of what is actually going on before explaining anything, at the moment this is a case of chinese whispers that has been brought public at a stage where unfortunatly there are plenty of facts that can be thrown in about the breeder and also the buyer but no real answer to why the python died so nothing can be done to prove or disprove anything

 

[tan]

My two cents: If in fact a vet was involved it is probably more likely that the OPMV was mentioned as a possibility and the kid has heard only what he wanted to hear. I'm afraid there are far too many people out there trying to score something for free and also enjoy causing dramas and creating attention for themselves. If a vet report confirming to 100% was available I would expect to see this person defending himself and providing the proof. As this has not been done at least to the accused in question then I have serious doubts he has the relevant proof to back up his allegation. We see this all the times on open forum where someone is quick to blame and accuse without the relevant back-up in turn causing extreme consequences for the breeder. This is a major problem in online forums and unfortunately a lot of peoples hobbys are affected.
Think first before you speak people, keep your noses in your own backyard and deal with issues such as this directly with the person/people involved and mountains will not be created from molehills.
Good luck to those involved and I hope that once this is all sorted, it is made apparent to all who read this seeing as it was put on open forum and the buyer made it others business in the first place.

 

[Ramsayi]

The vet report will presumably be another one of those things which effectively says nothing more than "Yep, the snake was dead, we can't tell what killed it, so hey, perhaps it was OPMV". When it's worded more like "The death was consistent with OPMV" it seems more convincing, which is useful if you're charging money for it. Of course, they don't say "The death was consistent with extreme temperature exposure", they don't list the dozens of other possible causes, many of which are more likely than OPMV. They single out whatever happens to be the most in vogue disease at the time, which for the last few years has been OPMV. Nothing solid is known about OPMV. There is no consistent information available and no conclusive diagnostic tool, at least in this country.

John,are you suggesting that a report that concludes "consistent with OPMV" is nothing to be concerned about and that no action ie:notifying recent buyers,euthing or at least locking a remaining collection down for a decent period of time be implemented?

 

[BenReyn]

Yeah, I see your point Sdaji, lol, im so damn derogative

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Codered
Please don’t go down the path of claiming that I have glossed over anything as people who know me, also know that I never operate that way.
So please explain how I have glossed over anything?
I have since asked Luke about your condition claims and according to Luke the reptiles looked (externally) perfectly fine when he sent them, e.g. no retained eye scale and no neck kink that was ever noticed by him and his reptiles always had water and he does not believe for a second he had sent dehydrated reptiles.
Luke also went on to say that the kid himself said he could not notice one but the vet said it apparently had one?
Since you supposedly have further details (as evident), why don’t you enlighten us further?
Did you actually see and examine the three pythons when they arrived? Or are you going by what has been told to you?
Have you seen the exact wording on this vets report for yourself?
If you have, please tell us the wording.

As far as the inexperience of the kid, I directly refer the meaning of this in the way he handled the situation by defamation without due process and his clear lack of understanding of the diagnosis of the virus, simple as that really.
Furthermore it doesn’t matter who the vet or how respected he might be, (but thanks for letting me know) if he can’t prove 100% that there was OPMV it doesn’t provide anything more valid than if his grandmother wrote it. Without seeing the exact wording of his report myself, I can only guess but I highly doubt he is brave enough to claim or write that it was OPMV conclusive.
It is far more likely that he may have wrote symptoms consistent with OPMV which of cause does not mean it has been confirmed.
I can’t wait to see.

Frogman
I do not know the exact amount of hatchlings he lost through excess heat, but it wasn’t very many out of the four clutches and I did warn him that there could possibly be further deaths and this has proven true with two Stimsons you being one of them.
Luke in this case has learnt a hard lesson and let’s sincerely hope there isn’t a more major one about to be learnt.

funcouple
Luke is doing a family thing this weekend and I am sure he will comment in due course.

 

[Ramsayi]

Dave of course you will not see a "opmv conclusive" finding however if the finding is "consistent with OPMV" are you suggesting that it means nothing and should be completely disregarded?

 

[Eylandt]

Codered
Did you actually see and examine the three pythons when they arrived? Or are you going by what has been told to you?

Arent you? I mean did you see the Pythons when they were sent? Isnt EVERY statement youv'e made based off what you were TOLD?

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Sdaji]

John,are you suggesting that a report that concludes "consistent with OPMV" is nothing to be concerned about and that no action ie:notifying recent buyers,euthing or at least locking a remaining collection down for a decent period of time be implemented?

No, of course not.

 

[spilota_variegata]

Fortunately for most of us, keeping a breeding reptiles is only a hobby. Having to euthanise you entire collection shouldn't have too much of a financial impact. If this allegation is completely erroneous, then only someone's reputation will be blemished - it's not as if someone is going to lose their business over this. ***yes I am being sarcastic***

We all know that in this situation there is not going to be a definitive diagnosis. This is not the fault of the buyer or the seller and probably will not be rectified for many years. No vet in Australia will be able to positively diagnose this disease without sending sample overseas - something the average person will ever agree to. Could you imagine saying yes to the question "Mr. Smith, I can send these samples to a laboratory in the United States for a definitive diagnosis but it's going to cost you several thousand dollars - are you OK with this?" Sure someone who owns a serum laboratory, zoo or business might say yes as his/her financial interest is at stake. Mr. Smith (pseudonymn) would not do this as it is far too costly.

I think Iceman has thus far handled this situation well. Now we must all sit back and wait to see what else he - and anyone who has bought snakes from him will do. I not saying for everyone who has purchased from him to euthanise their collection - just to consider imposing tight quarantine protocol and not sell any reptiles until this situation has been clarified.