DECC minimum enclosure size discussion.

[jacorin]

yo cement,
would like to say i agree with you but i cant

i know of a bloke who,as a millionaire,is spending $1,000,000 in legals,to fight this dept over some of his birds

if they want to waste the money,they will

 

[user 16446]

I don't see a problem, if you get an unexpected inspection....."No officer, that's not the enclosure, that's just the hide box. Oh and any attempts on your life are nothing personal, the big girl is due for a feed"

 

[craig23]

...

 

[craig23]

posting issues

 

[craig23]

Apparently Venom Supplies has recently done some research / trails on cage sizes and breeding sucess on a few species including coastal taipans. I hear second hand that the results are that taipans and other species are PROVEN to do better, and reproduce better in smaller enclosures.

I think people in general, including some of the people who have posted on this thread, need to relise that reptiles, snakes in particular, are not people, they are not dogs, cats, or anything else. They are snakes. They have extremely small brains, and live following very simple instincts and very simple thought processes.
A snake is not "happy" or "sad" or "bored" a snake doesnt sit there and say "wow, what a crappy small enclosure" A basic rule coming from research is if a snake is eating, *****ting, shedding, and breeding, then it is physically healthy, and 'emotionally" healthy. A stressed snake which is not satisfied with its environment wont eat, it wont be healthy, and most of all, it wont breed.

People really need to stop thinking snakes and reptiles have emotions and have thought processes comparable to humans. How do I know??? because research on animals ans brain size/composition tells us. Parts of our brain that process emotion, snakes dont have, and so on and so on.

Alot, and i mean hundreds if not thousands more experts that have studied and bred snakes will agree on smaller enclosures than DECC can possibly come up with that will say the contrary

 

[Sandy009]

Laws like this are only enforced to protect mistreated animals
We have all seen or heard of large snakes in small enclosures or click clacks etc

It is about time private keepers had to assume some responsibility for their pets
If the guidelines follow the same guidelines used for commercial operators it is roughly as follows
2metre snake enclosure minimum 1000mm x 500mm x 2000mm tall [if aboreal] or 2000mm long for olives waters etc
If you check the website I think the dimensions for commercial operators will be there somewhere

Yes, I totally agree that in some cases it is overkill, but I use Qlds exhibitors code for my snakes; even though I do not exhibit; and they seem quite happy with their habitats

If this stops some reptiles from having terrible conditions it will be well worth it

Agreed. Like people who keep snakes in old falling apart particle board cupboards and such. God to hear you are up to code Longte.

As you said Exhibitors Code can be accesses from the EPA website for anyone who wants to look into it. (PDF docs)

 

[Vat69]

The problem is wokka that the advisory group is not made up of keepers. It is made up of a variety of people with varying ideology. Some impose their own ideas of anthropomorphism onto the animals we keep.
They raise points like "How would you feel if you were forced to live in a plastic tray with a sheet of newspaper, heat gradient, bowl of water, shed assist item and all the rodents you could eat. You wouldn't like it would you?"
Well I would if I was a spotted python.

With such intimate insight you must also be sitting on the board? Got any more info for us plebs? If the advisory board is not made up of keepers, what does it consist of?

 

[Slateman]

Laws like this are only enforced to protect mistreated animals
We have all seen or heard of large snakes in small enclosures or click clacks etc

It is about time private keepers had to assume some responsibility for their pets
If the guidelines follow the same guidelines used for commercial operators it is roughly as follows
2metre snake enclosure minimum 1000mm x 500mm x 2000mm tall [if aboreal] or 2000mm long for olives waters etc
If you check the website I think the dimensions for commercial operators will be there somewhere

Yes, I totally agree that in some cases it is overkill, but I use Qlds exhibitors code for my snakes; even though I do not exhibit; and they seem quite happy with their habitats

If this stops some reptiles from having terrible conditions it will be well worth it

Uff I agree that animals should have proper environment to live in. But size 1000mm x 500mm x 2000mm for coastal is bit much. There must be some reasonable outcome on the end of this saga.

 

[FAY]

I think that you will find that there are very adept, sensible people on this committee, that love the hobby and want only the best for the animals.
Let's hope that NPWS and this committee can sit around a table, have total respect for each others input and come out with a min enclosure that is not only sensible, but that most will be happy with esp the animals. (Let's face it, it is impossible to make everyone happy!) LOL
There is nothing black and white in deciding these things....too many shades of grey. Every species of reptiles have different needs. Snakes expecially just freak out in too big an enclosure.

 

[Oldbeard]

They can come out with guide lines all day long,but its when they say that they can enforce the laws on cage sizes is the big worry.

 

[-Peter]

With such intimate insight you must also be sitting on the board? Got any more info for us plebs? If the advisory board is not made up of keepers, what does it consist of?

Whats your point Erin? DECC advisory committee is nmade up of a cross section of the communitee. It has members of several animal welfare organisation sitting on it but you already know that so I guess your trying to push some other agenda.

 

[m.punja]

If these rules come out I'd nearly rather live in WA. Might have to check off NSW as a possible living place along with Tassie and WA and ACT. I'm pretty happy with Vic actually I hope the best comes out of this and it doesn't go ahead the way it is. All the best.

 

[Vat69]

Whats your point Erin? DECC advisory committee is nmade up of a cross section of the communitee. It has members of several animal welfare organisation sitting on it but you already know that so I guess your trying to push some other agenda.

I'm genuinely curious. But I've just re-read your post and I took you as saying the committee had no keepers in it, rather than it's not made up solely of keepers. That's where my misunderstanding arose. It made me confused-I thought there was another committee I didn't know about. As such, I agree with the sentiment in your original post.
No other agenda here I just wanted to clarify my understanding and I worded my previous post pretty badly. Apologies for that

 

[jacorin]

things like this bring ppl undone and can cause a lot of heartache and anguish.
i know it did when DECC brought out they're Exotic Birds regs. we all just have to stay calm and await the info as it comes(sometimes verrrrrrrrrry slowly) it is a gov. department after all.

saying that,i'd like to see a national system brought in across the board,where every state and territory uses the same laws n regs as each other ( like drivers licences should be as well)

just my thoughts

 

[m.punja]

I hope not jacorin, we might all adopt DECC's way of thinking....?

 

[jacorin]

oooppppsss soz punja.

i was thinking more of wot animals on wot licence(at a national level) mainly

like the person in another post,got into trouble for importing snakes into WA that were illegal.

(think they were diamonds) why are they not allowed over there?

i should think better before engaging typing fingers

 

[ecosnake]

I base a lot of my enclosure by the length of the snake, like the front of the enclosure ad the side should be equal or larger to the length of the snake, height depending on the snake species. Snake need to be able to stretch out.

 

[cement]

I think the DECC are screwed unless they take proper advice from experienced keepers who are fairly large breeders.

Which it does seem they are doing (going by the woma decision).
If they come out with silly sizes like what this thread suggests, we are talking thousand's of cages, Hundreds of people. They will be swamped and overun with the mamoth impossible task.

Have a bit of faith people, I don't think they they really want to take on the people who have spent thousands on buying pairs of greens, albinos etc...

Imagine this "sorry but your cage sizes are under our new rule, we'll have to confiscate that trio of adult albino olives". yeh sure!

 

[links]

shouldnt we be able to write to our local member expressing our disgust on what they are trying to do...why should we sit back and just wait and see what happens. it will be too late to do anything about it then. we all just bought snakes and enclosures from the expo.. hard earned money gone down the drain if we just sit back and let them say that we are not allowed to use those cages..
why should we hold back on buying cages for our snakes until we find out what they will allow us to have..we should be telling them what is best for our snakes and what enclosures are best for them...not let some dweeb from NPWS tell us what is best for our snakes...
its great that we have a group of well known keepers and phds on our side fighting for us...but shouldnt we be doing something as well....petitions...lettters etc.
.

 

[links]

I think the DECC are screwed unless they take proper advice from experienced keepers who are fairly large breeders.

Which it does seem they are doing (going by the woma decision).
If they come out with silly sizes like what this thread suggests, we are talking thousand's of cages, Hundreds of people. They will be swamped and overun with the mamoth impossible task.

Have a bit of faith people, I don't think they they really want to take on the people who have spent thousands on buying pairs of greens, albinos etc...

Imagine this "sorry but your cage sizes are under our new rule, we'll have to confiscate that trio of adult albino olives". yeh sure!

faith and the DECC should not be used in the same breath