No-thermostat setups

[Mr.James]

hows this - 1200Hx1200Lx600D ply enclosure with glass doors. 40W infared bulb top left corner, branch and platform 300 below it and then just a low watt heat mat on the base? Well ventilated of course too. I think that should be close if I can get decent temps without thermostat...maybe set timers..

(btw its my first python..)

 

[Lewy]

That's what I'm talking about people who don't explain things properly so now what will happen it a young new kid will get a heat matt or a 100watt heat light and just let it run witch can be very dangerous to the reptile

 

[Mr.James]

What about tub setups? TrueBlue's setup is a good idea, but what if you just had a single tub?

 

[Jackrabbit]

I didn't use a thermostat on my first plastic enclosure due to some advice I was given. The heat mat melted a hole in the bottom of the enclosure! I was lucky a) the snake wasn't injured, b) it didn't start a fire (aspen substrate), & c) the snake didn't escape. I have since deleted that advice from my memory banks & followed the manufacturer's instructions & had no probs since (now use Microclimate Ministat 100). Check pic.

Looks like you had too much of the tub on the heat mat.

For my hatchies I don't have a thermostat and the heat mat is only under 1/3 of the tub and no problems so far.

 

[Jackrabbit]

This is the problem with people giving advise with out explaining them selves properly

You can do the no thermostat way but do it right have a search for a thread by Trueblue on his set ups he dose not you them and swears by his set up

Lewy

But isn't he in QLd where it is warmer?

 

[beeman]

But isn't he in QLd where it is warmer?

I am in north central victoria and Robs {True Blues} system works well here

 

[Renagade]

i dont use therostates on half my enclosures, but i do use digi probe themometres to monitor the heat. of course they are not made of plastic...

 

[Sock Puppet]

Looks like you had too much of the tub on the heat mat.

Heat mat was half on, half off, the hole melted at one edge of the heat mat & continued past the extent of where the mat was.

 

[ivonavich]

I don't use thermostats... I have a heat mat(low wattage) provide a hot spot in each of my enclosures 24/7 and I allow the snakes to thermoregulate themselves. If they get cold or are digesting a meal they curl up in their hot spot. If they get too hot they move away from their hotspot. easy.

 

[channi]

I heat everything but lizards without a thermostat, I simply use the lowest wattage available except in my large coastals enclosure which has a 60 watt instead of a 40 watt bulb. For click clacks I get a low wattage heat mat or cord and put it only under 1/8 of the the container, if the animal is cold it will move there. Don't use any substrate except news paper or paper towel as the others will contain the heat and cause the container to melt as shown earlier in this thread.

 

[herptrader]

This sums up the situation pretty well.

I would use a thermostat on even the smallest setups. Modern pre wired thermostats with probes easily migrate from a hatchy setup to most full sized adult enclosures so it is an investment worth making.

One key thing to remember is that it is not just the heat input that matters but also how it escapes. Plastic is a relatively good insulator as are air pockets. A heating element in a well insulated situation will just keep getting hotter regardless of its wattage. Lower wattage heating elements will just take longer to hit the critical high temperature.

A good thermostat is valuable insurance even if you run your setup such that it rarely switches off the heating element.

Place the probe as close as is sensibly possible to the heating element.

I didn't use a thermostat on my first plastic enclosure due to some advice I was given. The heat mat melted a hole in the bottom of the enclosure! I was lucky a) the snake wasn't injured, b) it didn't start a fire (aspen substrate), & c) the snake didn't escape. I have since deleted that advice from my memory banks & followed the manufacturer's instructions & had no probs since (now use Microclimate Ministat 100). Check pic.

 

[cris]

You need to do 2 things, first is not cause a fire and second is have the cool end insulated from the heat.

 

[Chimera]

I love the thermostat debate, it's like arguing whether you should swim freestyle or backstroke to cross a river. At the end of the day your goals are the same.

ANY approach to heating an enclosure needs to be properly considered, researched and tested prior to permanently housing an animal. I'm sure if you searched through all the threads on this forum (or any other for that matter) there would be a laundry list of stories from people who have blindly followed advice and ended up with a problem.

Fundamentally, you want:
- a warm end that allows the reptile to get its BODY TEMPERATURE up to its preferred optimal temperature. In order to do this the basking site may well need to be warmer, particularly for exposed tubs that rely on heat mats.
- a cool end that is not influenced by the temperature of the warm end. This can be done through extra space or dividers.
- a portion of the enclosure that remains below the critical thermal maximum (i.e. death temperature) for the reptile housed regardless of circumstances. If you use a thermostat, this should account for thermostat failure on an uncharacteristically hot day. If you aren't using a thermostat, this involves seasonally changing the heating mechanism (e.g. changing globes in Summer). Dividers can assist with this.

The options that exist within these requirements are varied and well documented, just understand the full picture before blindly taking advice. You'll probably find that once the person offering the advice knows the full details of your setup, the response would be "yeah that won't work, you need to .....".

 

[Mr.James]

Ok I will use a basic thermostat for the heat bulbs.

BUT do all heat mats need a thermostat? talking like very low wattage 12W or something?

 

[wokka]

These cages are both Trueblue type cages with no thermostats. The cages are only 30cm high with 25 watt globes above a 40cm square ceramic tile. The globe produces about 32 c on the tile in most ambient temperatures and there is a slight gradient in the hot cage to say 28c. The cool cage is well ventilated with a pegboard back whereas the hot end has no ventilation except for the porthole connecting it to the cool end. The cool end is normally about ambient temperature which tonight will be about 12c

I have now replaced all the globes with 13 watt heatmats under the tiles, because i got sick of replacing globes and figure snakes prefer the dark. These heat the tile to 32-36c with a gradient across the tile as the heatmat is only about half tile size.

The principle is that the snake choses the temperature it requires. There are no bulbs to replace nor thermostats to break or set. You need to fine tune the cage design to get the right temps but once you work it out it seems ok. I have over150 of these cages working 24/7 with no breakdowns to date. All the cages are similar and so achieve similar heat.
I still advise newbies to use a thernostat until you know what you are doing and if you only have a couple of cages stick with them. Like herptrader said If you use no thermostat you must have somewhere for the heat to go so it doesn't just keep building up.No thermostat cages can be a trap for young players and I dont recommend them unless you really understand what you are doing.

 

[Mr.James]

Thanks to everyone for the great responses!

I'm all set to do some trial runs this weekend.

Cheers
Jim

 

[Cashby]

I am Going to a bearded dragon soon, I was wondering is it possible to just use a timer and maybe a thermometer and no thermostat with them? If you can what are the best times and stuff to have the heat mat, light and UV on? And does anyone know where to get a good timer on the net? Thx

 

[DonnB]

These cages are both Trueblue type cages with no thermostats. The cages are only 30cm high with 25 watt globes above a 40cm square ceramic tile. The globe produces about 32 c on the tile in most ambient temperatures and there is a slight gradient in the hot cage to say 28c. The cool cage is well ventilated with a pegboard back whereas the hot end has no ventilation except for the porthole connecting it to the cool end. The cool end is normally about ambient temperature which tonight will be about 12c

I have now replaced all the globes with 13 watt heatmats under the tiles, because i got sick of replacing globes and figure snakes prefer the dark. These heat the tile to 32-36c with a gradient across the tile as the heatmat is only about half tile size.

The principle is that the snake choses the temperature it requires. There are no bulbs to replace nor thermostats to break or set. You need to fine tune the cage design to get the right temps but once you work it out it seems ok. I have over150 of these cages working 24/7 with no breakdowns to date. All the cages are similar and so achieve similar heat.
I still advise newbies to use a thernostat until you know what you are doing and if you only have a couple of cages stick with them. Like herptrader said If you use no thermostat you must have somewhere for the heat to go so it doesn't just keep building up.No thermostat cages can be a trap for young players and I dont recommend them unless you really understand what you are doing.

Very nice setup Wokka. I am going to built some banks soon and will be doing TrueBlues method also. Just need to decide on mats or globes.

 

[Omega]

In all the years I have kept reptiles I have never used a thermostat on any cages/enclosures and I have never had a single problem
Just be realistic with the wattage!!

I use reflector globes with monitors and dragons, heat mats/cords for snakes and geckos

 

[gozz]

i dont use thermostates, i use a 25 watt bulb in small encloseres and a 40 watt heat panel in 900x900x600 enclosers, cheers