These eggs freak me out every time!!!

[wranga]

Ahhh Wranga, normally I'd agree, damned argumentative souls! But if the threadstarter is happy to post comments in aid of starting a verbal stoush and then professes to enjoy it I guess there isn't really harm in it, is there? :lol:

it gets boring and spoils the thread

 

[Kersten]

You're right sometimes it does!

 

[Pythons Rule]

There's one decent close up pic of an albino head in the egg of the last pics posted and after looking very hard I can't see an egg tooth,I'm not saying there isn't one however I can't see one, is there any chance you can get a pic showing an egg tooth PLEASE?

in the pic's I posted, you can see a tiny pointed object on the second pic on the bottom lip of the hatchy. I would say one with an egg tooth would have one like shown in this picture. there not the same type of python but I am assuming that all hatchies with, would appear similar with this tiny little spike.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Please close this thread moderators. It's clear to me that it's a waste of time.

 

[SamNabz]

Each to his own I guess. I pip, have never lost a hatchling. I have a very small surgical scissor, if you have steady hands and work gently there is very little chance of cutting through veins. After 51 days at 31.5 degrees celcius the eggs are ready. All they have to do now is crawl out, and they are good to go.

I know this is a quote from Page 1 but i just finished reading this thread and was wondering if you had the patience to sit there and do this to those eggs...i don't understand why you couldn't have used this "virtue" and waited the usual 58 days (7 days more than you did) for them to start pipping...?

Over-all pretty full on thread this has become, always interesting to see other peoples thoughts and methods.

 

[=bECS=]

I think what Fay is asking is if the eggs are pipped in such a way, and the contents exposed, is the chance of bacterial exposure heightened?

As far as the sealed water only environment goes Fay, I wouldn't think that it would stop it completely given that water on it's own can still provide a breeding ground for bacteria.

Im curious regarding this......
If CP.c.a is opening the tub to take pics, prod them a little to check for movement etc, wouldn't that allow for bacteria to get in.

Also, along the same lines, is it just me, or can anyone else see parts of the 'yolk' looking like its starting to dry out a little?
The eggs look to me to be a bit more drier too.

Im not looking for an argument, just stating my opinion based on the pics given.

Would have been interesting to see how the eggs would have gone at full term untampered considering its the first time the S.I.M has been used on pythons though
Also Vermiculite has been used as a part of the meduim, even though its supposed to be just water according to the sales pitch.
It would have been nice to see full results from this method, i guess someone will test the S.I.M incubation according to the way its marketed soon enough.


Thanks for sharing though....

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Nobody needs to worry anymore. I will keep these things to myself from now on. You did it kersten. Well done.

 

[wranga]

as usual another thread thats turned to ****. to many experts that couldnt keep an open mind and wait and see how this turned out before commenting

 

[yommy]

S.I.M works great to full term, and a great container with adjustable areas to stop the eggs rolling.
As for the egg being piped to early or not who cares, her eggs, her choice. Take a look at Brian Barnetts story on the herp trader on his childreni egg hatching. The are designed to hatch.
I split an egg seperating it from the clump this season, placed medi-tap over the crack, leaked a little but still hatched perfectly fine amd it was easy to pip too

Good luck with em CPca

 

[Cuddly_pony]

Its a shame the thread has been ruined it was soooo interesting to see and a first for me!!!!
Even though it didnt work out Carpet.com.au I am glad you posted this thread I learnt a LOT about this topic and its awesome to see inside an egg

 

[GreggMadden]

Artificially incubated eggs remain in an environment (the egg container) of constant warmth and humidity. This allows the egg shells to remain as soft as they were the day they were laid.

This is odd because this is not the case with pythons that are allowed to maternaly incubate in captivity... I would also think in the wild a female would find a place to lay that has a pretty consistant temperature and humidity level...

I seriously doubt that the egg shell would be any "tougher" or "softer" either way... Honestly, I think that is just an unproven theory with no literature to back it up....

And the reason I asked Kersten the questions I did was because she seems to have alot to say for someone not bringing any info to the so called table...

I am not sure what kind of breeder has eggs and does not have data recorded... And why would you not share data??? You do not need to be a "professional" to do so.... Every bit of data is useful to help further our hobby...

It seriously sounds as if a select couple of people are very jealous of the success....

 

[shax]

I as Im sure the majority following this thread want to see you succeed 100% with these eggs. In my opinion it would be valuable information to the community as a whole not matter what the outcome now and I don't think you should feel any judgment by a minority population

Best wishes

 

[wranga]

This is odd because this is not the case with pythons that are allowed to maternaly incubate in captivity... I would also think in the wild a female would find a place to lay that has a pretty consistant temperature and humidity level...

I seriously doubt that the egg shell would be any "tougher" or "softer" either way... Honestly, I think that is just an unproven theory with no literature to back it up....

And the reason I asked Kersten the questions I did was because she seems to have alot to say for someone not bringing any info to the so called table...

I am not sure what kind of breeder has eggs and does not have data recorded... And why would you not share data??? You do not need to be a "professional" to do so.... Every bit of data is useful to help further our hobby...

It seriously sounds as if a select couple of people are very jealous of the success....

from what i have seen of maternal incubation the shell becomes hard and leathery. im guessing this is caused by a lack of humidity close to the eggs

 

[GreggMadden]

from what i have seen of maternal incubation the shell becomes hard and leathery. im guessing this is caused by a lack of humidity close to the eggs

Reptile eggs will toughen up more as they develop no matter how they are being incubated... The will start to soften right around hatch time...

 

[GreggMadden]

It's unclear what 'part' you are referring to because there are so many involved in respiration and post-prandial elimination in hatchling reptiles. The external opening for voiding excreta is the cloaca. The external opening for respiratory exchange is the nostril.

If your 'hatchling' only has one part, then it is pooing where it eats, which one should never do.
.

Well as true as this statement is when the animal is OUT of the egg, the mechanics of exchanging gases, taking in nutrients and expelling waste is TOTALY different while inside the egg...

I kinda hope you were kidding with that statement???

 

[GreggMadden]

I as Im sure the majority following this thread want to see you succeed 100% with these eggs. In my opinion it would be valuable information to the community as a whole not matter what the outcome now and I don't think you should feel any judgment by a minority population

Best wishes

Yeah, but all it takes is one turd in the pool to ruin everyones day of swimming... In this case there were like 2 or 3 turds...

 

[shax]

Yeah, but all it takes is one turd in the pool to ruin everyones day of swimming... In this case there were like 2 or 3 turds...

Can always be cleaned and now one remembers in the morning

 

[GreggMadden]

Oh LOL! :lol:

When the going gets tough, the tough get going huh?

In the most recent pics you posted... whats that "film-like" substance... It looks like dust or something has settled on the membrane thingo (omg not the "membrane thingo" everyone knows its the amnionic membrane doo-hicky thing :lol: ) Would that dust-like substance be harmful in potentially allowing/harboring bacteria to grow/introducing bacteria and other nasties to potentially penetrate and attack the "un-hatched" snake???

Well if you knew anything other than reptile basics, you would know that at this point, the snake already has a strong immune system....

But even more obvious is the fact that egg shells are PORUS.... This means that "nasties" as you call them, can get to the embryo even if the shell was not removed... If you want to sound like you know what you are talking about, you should probably know what you are talking about...

What a waste of a good thread... It always seems to be the usual suspects that kill good threads like this...

 

[GreggMadden]

So let me get this straight......CPca, in her own words, posted something to generate an argument, then she said that she enjoyed the verbal back and forth....now it's a problem. That's just way too much back and forth for me. If you didn't want someone to disagree with you, why go out of your way to make it happen and then get annoyed when things go down exactly as you'd planned?

Whats the point of going back and forth on a thread that is educational, interesting and cool??? Now this may be a snap judgment, but you seem to be very argumentative at times when it is clearly not needed... I know I should not judge but I am only human and thats what I have gotten from most of your posts... It is non-productive in the way you do it...

Greg, surprising as it may be to you....someone expressing a difference of opinion, or questioning the reason behind the methods used here is not something to be instantly arributed to jealousy. If something was being bred which I wanted, perhaps. If I was unsuccessful in breeding perhaps. But neither of those circumstances are at play here and all questions asked, and observations made were valid. They were simply different to yours and to CPcas. That is the joy in forums. You get to see the opinions of others.

I have no issue with difference in opinion... Personally I have never piped an egg but I will never say Nicole is wrong for doing so... She is obviously an experienced breeder and has her reasons for doing what she does... And hey, obviously it works well for her...

I've already given some of my reasons for not publishing detailed accounts of my own breeding efforts - that being that I don't speak on the subject wihth authority (hence also my questions), here is one more....I am not interested in promoting myself through this forum as a breeder. I think Kris has posted a pic or two of a couple of our breeding pairs, but that was as an aside in a thread about jungles, not about breeding per se. I am sure this will not be enough to convince you, but at least I've made an effort. I've no doubt you'll continue to hawk the notion that I'm just a jeaolus wannabe, and that's fine with me given that I'm not here to make a buck.

Now here is where I believe you and I differ a lot... You have given me your reason and I have accepted your reason... I have no reason to "hawk" on about anything... What gets me is the fact that Nicole gave her reasons for cutting the eggs open and that you and a couple of others did not accept that as an answer... It was her reason for doing what she did, and that should be enough... All you did was spout your opinion as fact...

 

[GreggMadden]

Where to start!!!!

Secondly, are you infact saying/implying that NO bacteria or other "nasties" no matter how potent and detrimental they may be... i.e. OPMV or any other form of virus, immunovirus, bacteria etc can ever harm the unhatched snake more readily because it has a strong immune system???

Actually I was implying that the cut eggs are at no more risk than uncut ones to being infected by microscopic bateria and viruses... Being that egg shells are porous, the "nasties" will not be stopped by the outer shell anyway... It is the immune system that stops bacterial and viral infection for the most part...

Forgive my ignorance, but even the most healthy organism/animal, with an impeccable immune system can still fall ill and die... What about E. coli, Salmonella, any of those random bacteria that so readily jump on things and cause things to go off and harm things especially in that temperature range, it is prime conditions and temperature for those bacteria to flourish! i.e. 30+ degrees or whatever, a moist environment, humid, and not to mention, multitudes of FOOD for such tiny bacteria to thrive on! NO WAY! It cant possibly multiply to such magnitudes to EVER compromise the health of the unhatched snake!
What about runts? There's one in every clutch, they are notorious for being weaker than the average and being more immuno-supressed than the rest... Are you saying that just because it's fully developed or close to, that it can't fall sick? When infact the main barrier preventing or "slowing down penetration of" the bacteria has been removed? Yes the egg is POROUS (nice spelling btw, for such an educated being that you so aptly claim to be reading literature etc), But its still a hell of a lot more protection than being fully exposed! And it makes it a hell of a lot easier for nasties to attack! Its like... Here, try and crash tackle me, but wait... instead of running and hiding... I'm going to just stand here and let you hit me at full force! COME ON!!!

Firstly you should try breaking up your sentences a bit so peoples eyes dont get tired from reading your thought process...

What does E. coli, runts and my spelling error have to do with egg piping???

Don't be so ignorant! Anyone knows that the more layers of protection you take away, the higher the risk of infection and disease etc there is! No matter how savvy the immune system is... there are always drastically increased risks! Which was my point... Thanks for taking it off on a tangeant...

In this case, you are wrong... Look at it like this... Latex condoms reduce the risk of STDs, lamb skin condoms do not... Why??? Because they have microscopic natural porous that bacteria and viruses can get through...

Nice try at trying to imply I'm stupid and completely uneducated...

I think you have done a fine job of doing that yourself...