Couldnt have said better myself ...

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redbellybite

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This Bloke regardless of what you think of him ...makes sense
Bill Flowers ..I take my hat off to you ;)

[video=youtube;mbzKsasn7EE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbzKsasn7EE[/video]
 
Live feeding is extremely cruel and people that do it have major issues.

Why doesn't live feeding carry a jail sentence? It's wrong, it's cruel and it's extremely barbaric. For those people that claim it's impossible to feed some breeds on 'dead' mice, my mate purchased a tiger from someone, 8 years old, only been fed on live, was changed to frozen within 4 weeks.

Bottom line - it's just cruel.
 
Bottom line - it's just cruel.

Hear Hear.................. it's cruel...... barbaric....... unnecessary. and as the guy in the video said, there is no such thing as a predatory animal that isn't also a scavenger................ end of story!!!!

We need more of this type of reinforcement always, to ensure that no animal should suffer, as he said, all vertebrates should be respected.
 
Hear Hear.................. it's cruel...... barbaric....... unnecessary. and as the guy in the video said, there is no such thing as a predatory animal that isn't also a scavenger................ end of story!!!!

We need more of this type of reinforcement always, to ensure that no animal should suffer, as he said, all vertebrates should be respected.

Do frogs scavenge? I know the main diet people feed them in captivity is invertebrates but I was just wondering if "all predatory animals scavenge" does this include frogs? I haven't seen a frog scavenge before?

Great video anyway!
 
Is Australia the only country where live feeding is illegal? I know it's frowned upon by most hobbyists elsewhere, but certainly not illegal.

Also, I would not go so far as to say it's cruel. I have personally always fed f/t, just because I don't like seeing prey suffer. However, I don't think it's cruel to feed live, it's natural (both in the wild and in captivity). Is it cruel that I used to order thousands of crickets each month, live, to feed to various geckos? Why should we limit this to vertebrates? Do invertebrates not suffer?

Another important reason I never fed live is it is a hazard to the herp. I've personally seen a couple snakes, ball pythons, at the vet all chewed up due to unsupervised live feedings. I would not want risk the snake by feeding live. However, many neonates are such finicky feeders that there is no other way to start them, aside from force feeding.

Mostly, I agree with this video. Though to me, cruel is not feeding live. I do not enjoy it, but look out into nature... it happens. These snakes, though outside of the wild, are still "wild animals." I'm not sure I agree with "every predator will scavenge." I do think that most who cannot get their snake to feed on f/t need to ajust their care and set ups rather the switch to live. This is most likely due to keeper error rather then the snake.

Example:
Raised as an American, I would say "it's cruel to kill cats!" I know many Aussies feel differently, but I was very horrified when I first heard stories of people shooting cats in bush. It's just how I was raised, cats are to love not to shoot. I understand they are feral and severely affecting native fauna populations...but to this day I still look at it as killing a domestic cat (cruelty).

^Just like you were raised as it's cruel to feed live. It's different in America and Europe. It's all perspective.




My $.02
 
I cant agree with you questioning the live debate ,and using neonates as an example..for starters you are not going to feed a neo on a rat /mouse that has active teeth(you feed them newborn rodents) ..so the risk to the snake is zilch ..also pinkies and even fine fuzz are still blind so dont have the stress build up say to the rat or mouse that can see the inevitable ,,,
It is illegal here and frowned upon by many ...I dont need to say why as Bill said it all ..
 
^That's not the point I was arguing, but I'll play along...it really depends on the species. A young burm/retic is not going to be feeding on a pinkie.

With that aside,
I was referring to the cruelty argument with feeding live to neonates, regardless of the age of the prey, not with respect to a danger risk to the snakes. That was meant with respect to feeding adult mice/rats/whatever (ones with developed teeth/claws) to any snake.
 
Palex as we live in AUSTRALIA and dont have to deal with burms and such LEGALLY ...
I was focusing on AUSSIE snakes ...so my point was that a newborn pup is less likely to know what hit it, so less stress to the pup before it cops a ven bite and pop goes the lights are out ...that was my point ...
it still is a form of cruelty in such that the pup is alive ..
the focus was aimed more to the stress level on the rat /mouse due to being able to see the snake before the lunge and the damage that can be placed upon the snake /reptile due to live feeding both of which are zilch in a pinkie pup ..
 
I live in Australia as well, but there are many more hobbyists overseas with many other species...I see no point in limiting this discussion? I guess I could apply it to large Aussie pythons, but it appears most of the larger Morelia sp. are much to thin to be feeding on more developed rodents when young like that of a burm/retic/rock etc. I am not sure about M. amethistina neonates though, as I have no experience with the species.

I agree though that feeding a newborn COULD be less cruel then feeding a live adult, but I'm not sure it really makes much of a difference if it sees it coming or not. It will still suffer the same fate, constriction, envenomation, or straight up consumtion. The video argues that the cruelty lies in releasing live prey into a confined area to be hunted. I would believe that this is much less of an issue to the rodent then the actual strike/consumption process. I doubt the rodent has much of an idea what's happening while in the enclousre until it has coils around it. This is just based on the live feedings I've witnessed...Just my opinion, but I am not a rodent so I could not tell you.
 
Ok OK well as Bill says ...obviously some of us humans are PHAGOPHILIA...
so Palex are you a PHAG ?
 
Ok OK well as Bill says ...obviously some of us humans are PHAGOPHILIA...
so Palex are you a PHAG ?

Aside from your response being poorly executed, filled with butchered grammar and homophobic ideals... As previously stated I neither fed live nor enjoy watching something suffer.

However, I do like Phagocytosis. (Immunology)

 
watching that video made me want a pet mouse again -_- thanks alot :'(


and i dont think i could ever live feed.... id feel so sorry for the mouse. id buy it from the pet store and then just keep it as a pet. i dont have the heart to watch it run for its life ...
 
Aside from your response being poorly executed, filled with butchered grammar and homophobic ideals... As previously stated I neither fed live nor enjoy watching something suffer.

However, I do like Phagocytosis. (Immunology)
it wasnt a stab in that way ..there is nothing homophobic about me ...and if you knew me you certainly would know why ...
If you never fed live or enjoy watching live feeds ..why state it ..just to debate the other side?
We are all aware there are people out there even in this country that do it ...this vid explained it all and all the excuses that people use as to doing it was given an answer for ..so you just put your post up to disagree for that sake only ..fine then its an open forum and its up for debate ...
 
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