GTP thoughts

[Serpentes]

There were others too but I don't think it's appropriate to name them without their consent.
Anyway, is this some contest about who was first?

I can vouch for at least one of these others who kept and bred them with great success. And if they parts of this read this thread I'm sure they'd have a good giggle :lol:

Can anyone clear up this white vertebral stripe thing with natives? Is it true that they all have an reasonably unbroken vertebral line? I don't have field experience with the species so I don't know. I thought it is variable and not a morphological distinction in the Aussie clade? But sometimes seeing can be better than reading!

EDIT: That's very funny, what just popped up above this post while I was typing!

 

[Guest]

before I start an all out war here I'd just like to be clear im not refering to anyone inparticular iv just noticed that over the years the price of natives has remained fairly high, where the price of mixed blood GTP's has droped quite a bit and now EVERYONE wants one! yet crossing a carpet from prossipine with one from tully would be catastrophic!
why do people suddenly get a change of heart with greens????

 

[deebo]

farma - i think its just that nobody really knows locales with the greens to start with.....

 

[ZK928]

yeh aussie snakes are my favourite

 

[Serpentes]

farma - i think its just that nobody really knows locales with the greens to start with.....

Certain breeders do know. They keep this to themselves, as common sense would dictate. It's a matter of getting to know your breeder, and those seeking regional lines seem to be getting rarer. There is no reason to disbelieve the purity of some lines of snakes from Australia such as those bred by Waterrat, but I don't know of any locality-specific lines from other regions.

I'd love to know what is out there kept quiet in the world of green pythons.

 

[deebo]

serpentes - my "nobody knows" was a rather large generalisation and as you say im sure there are known lines out there. I would have thought that your average joe with a GTP only knows thats its a GTP and thats about all. Might be able to say it looks like a sorong or merauke etc.....The aussie gtps would probably have to be the most reputable/trustworthy lines - as long as you buy from the right people that is.

I would have thought some people would look at what the yanks have achieved with designer gtps and would be hoping to achieve similar results by mixing bloodlines.

Dave

 

[levis04]

I think this will be a sad yr for the greens, aussie or not they will still fall in price again. What is a pure Aussie hatchling worth as i would not know?

 

[scorps]

Yeah I will most likely buy greens this year, but will hold out until a few more clutches become available

 

[Serpentes]

Dave you are right, they are mostly mongrel things, of unknown or anecdotal lineage. I wouldn't like to start a breeding program with the vast majority of GTP's in Australia. This is especially so now that we know of the two different species, northern and southern, still unnamed. But there are some great rarities out there, just hard to find!

 

[BROWNS]

I've noticed there seems to be quite a bit of variation amongst the Aussies,Ithink most people have an image in their mind the true Aussies all look like the ones Flavirufus posted but they can have touches of blue as well as not having the vertebral stripe just a few white spots here and there.The other night there was a doco with David Williams in it showing what he's working on with freeze dried antivenom for Papuan Taipans as well as Papuan adders which are tiny,whilst searching the roads for adders they found a green crossingthe road which had a head injury of some sort but looked exactly like the image most have in their mind as to what a pure Australian Green Tree Pythons all look like.I spoke to a guy who knows people doing research with Aussies trying to find the answers to many of the questions etc in this thread and one Aussie green collected or chipped apparently had mostly blue on one side and green the other side.Most will probably say where's the pics for proof etc but surely seeing the massive variety and diversity just within the morelia sp complex,is it that hard to believe greens would also have variations to what most people think Aussie greens all look like.

There needs to be a lot more research done for us to learn more about this lovely species as many have been seen and/or found outside of their supposed natural rrange and there's a couple of isolated populations of greens with most research being conducted in only one locality from Iron Range,the other locality I have drawn a complete blank as to the locality name.

I saw the adult animals that Bredl collected and their offspring which at the time I could have got them at a great price which at the time was ridiculously expensive to me till I got right into the hobby and now wouldn't hesitate to pay twice that price for a smoking hot pair of jungles.

 

[Serpentes]

There are three populations of green pythons in Australia, the northernmost one is isolated from the other two, but they appear to all belong to the same species as those from southern PNG (currently called the "southern GTP"). No morphological and ecological research has been done on the northernmost population due to extreme logistical constraints and lack of funding.

There is colour variation in some Morelias, but don't forget ones like M. kinghorni which are quite similar throughout their large range. GTP's don't actually belong in Morelia, but in a separate genus with "M. carinata". Regardless of their taxonomy, I have seen little bits of blue flushing on the tail end of some Australian green pythons I have seen photographed in the wild. Without seeing them in the wild in decent numbers myself, I can't comment with any accuracy- I still like talking about them though

 

[BROWNS]

Yeah I actually meant it to compare the carpet variation with greens meaning all carpets have huge variation so why wouldn't there be variation with Aussie greens is what I was getting at.I had no idea there's 3 isolated populations/localities Without divulging too much info where approx is the 3rd localitry or general area ?The reason I ask without giving too much info is it just puts or gives another location for the unscrupulous peoples shopping list.I'm sure that many people had lost greens yet they were still in the books encouraging wild collecting to replace animals that died etc.I wouldn't be at all surprised that many more ppl have True pure Aussies than it is thought.

I saw the copy of a permit to collect 2 greens postedby waterrat and am just wondering how or why the authorities let one person to legally catch wild greens?Why one person and nobody else.How would you go about trying to get such a permit as I know damn well if I applied for a collectors permit I would not get one so again why one person and nbody else,what makes them so special?I've heard animals can be caught for research purposes however these are being commercially bred and sold at big bucks so again why would the authorities in this field basically give someone a licence to print money.

I also find it appaling that one very well known people amogst the first to breed greens in Oz had them confiscated only to be given to other people and now most of what was confiscated all weent overseas a couple of years ago after Irwin ended up with them.That bloodline other than 100% true Aussies was named to be the safest line around because it's where Southern Meruka greens in PNG are so closely related to our Natives and the bloodline was dna tested and then termed "deemed Aussie greens" which is actually one of the more common lines now in he hobby which many many people have profitted from yet poor old Bob B had all his confiscated.

I'm sure Bob Whitey was given pure Aussies from Bredl which Bob then bred succesfully only to have all of his greens confiscated also only to get 2 back,one was his own animal the other below a average looking malnutritioned PNG animal.As many others have said why if so many people claim to be purists especially people who want/keep and breed pure locality animals with carpets or antaresia for example,why would they and how do they justify their purist values yet will drop their standards to keep/breed and/or sell exotic greens which to me is no different to being illegal to keep any other exotic animals such as corns,balls,boas etc etc

One of the prettiest greens to me are the canary or lemon greens,they're absolutely spectacular!!!!

 

[waruikazi]

I saw the copy of a permit to collect 2 greens postedby waterrat and am just wondering how or why the authorities let one person to legally catch wild greens?Why one person and nobody else.How would you go about trying to get such a permit as I know damn well if I applied for a collectors permit I would not get one so again why one person and nbody else,what makes them so special?I've heard animals can be caught for research purposes however these are being commercially bred and sold at big bucks so again why would the authorities in this field basically give someone a licence to print money.

It is who you know as much as what you know. I have been a nominee on a take permit and they are impossible to get for most people but for some people they seem almost too easy.

 

[JasonL]

My feeling (supported by evidence) is that those complaining about the price are not even in the market for a GTP.
.

I would agree with that, by saying I think they are or were very overpriced, but thats just my opinion on what I would pay, many people would pay much more than I am willing, thus they are only worth what people are willing to pay.... the most I have ever spent on a herp was $900 for an adult snake.... yes I am a cheapskate with herps , happy to spend 2k on a dog.. but not a reptile..

 

[cris]

I would agree with that, by saying I think they are or were very overpriced, but thats just my opinion on what I would pay, many people would pay much more than I am willing, thus they are only worth what people are willing to pay.... the most I have ever spent on a herp was $900 for an adult snake.... yes I am a cheapskate with herps , happy to spend 2k on a dog.. but not a reptile..

I would agree, only im probably more of a cheapskate :lol: I would only pay more than $1000 for something like legal oenpelli rock pythons, L.o.barroni or possibly those green or black tree monitors.

 

[JasonL]

I would agree, only im probably more of a cheapskate :lol: I would only pay more than $1000 for something like legal oenpelli rock pythons, L.o.barroni or possibly those green or black tree monitors.

I think we are peas in a pod, maybe we should start our own syndicate, pool our money and and buy one GTP?

 

[D3pro]

if you really like it... you buy it... thats why i'm broke lol

 

[cris]

I think we are peas in a pod, maybe we should start our own syndicate, pool our money and and buy one GTP?

What are we going to feed it to? :lol:

 

[bundysnake]

From what i understand all our GTP's came from PNG initially when it was connected to Cape York so what is all the fuss about pure aussie GTP's?

 

[mungus]

I'm sorry ! let me introduce myself. Petpages IS Adrian Hemens..... and while I have never before joined any forum, I thought it was about time I did...if only to defend myself !

I have bred greens every year since 2001.... a lot longer than some other 'experts'

Ohhh, what a classic reply............:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Lets see how the comments directed at Adrien change in tone.....................