reptile sale slump???

[yommy]

Just as a matter of interest, what are "exceptional snakes"?
Exceptionally unusual (morphs), exceptionally robust, healthy from strong lines or exceptionally hard to get species / morphs?
I am curious because I would like to know if I fall into that category and if not, what should I do to join this exceptional group in the future.:lol:

Everything you have listed plays an important part. Particulary robust, heathy animals from good lines.
Though exceptional is in the eye of the beholder, i believe all my locality specific animals are exceptional, though i have taken my time and not rushed into selecting my animals for what appeals to me and have payed top $$$ but for me its not an issue if it is what you want.

What is of interest to me Waterrat is: have you notice a decline in interest or sales for your greens?
Being one of the best if not the best for pure aussie greens that money can buy in Aus do you have an issue moving on your hatchies in this current situation. If my situation allowed the time and committment for greens, i'd be knocking on your door for some but unfortuneatly my job situation doesn't allow this.

 

[SNAKEBOY33]

my thoughts exactly

 

[it_slithers]

Q:

then what happens to the average animals??? Now that's another debate!

.

A:

interesting point that this oversupply will result in freezing excess hatchies. That's pretty sad for the hatchies in question but overall it will benefit the reptile market. Just think, if it doesnt feed first go, freeze it. Or if its a bit fugly, freeze it. Or even if it isnt the best possible representation of the lineage, freeze it !! What we end up with are stronger , and nicer (more desirable) lines.

 

[Waterrat]

What is of interest to me Waterrat is: have you notice a decline in interest or sales for your greens?
Being one of the best if not the best for pure aussie greens that money can buy in Aus do you have an issue moving on your hatchies in this current situation. If my situation allowed the time and committment for greens, i'd be knocking on your door for some but unfortuneatly my job situation doesn't allow this.

There are some interesting dynamics, what I can say, it was easier and quicker to sell GTPs 3-4 years ago than it is now for less than half the price.
There is a clear indication that those set to own GTPs prefer yearlings and are prepared to pay the higher price. Well established, sexed, coloured (you can see what you're getting) animals are the go. So, no sweat, just like last year, I am holding onto them. There is one other advantage - it will give me two years of solid data on ontogenic colour change, prey switch, sex ratios and other aspects of their developmental stages.
Oh, as for the best or nearly best - they are my best so far. 13 - 15 grams at hatching is nothing to complain about, now 3 months old, they feed on fuzzies and you know what they do once on more solid diet - power away!

 

[tonesanlainie]

This is a very interesting thread. I think in short "reptiles are only worth what someone will pay for them". Of course that is an over simplification, but none the less true. Pay can be in cost of keeping, electricity bills, transport, likes, dislikes, so many factors. But the point still remains. The popularity of some species may have also been driven by a price tag. If a snake costs $10,000 does that make it more desirable than a $100 snake? One is more attainable and another is more desirable.If say all reptiles were the same price would the demand be more accurate of the taste and desires of the buyer? But then there would little to motivate!

I do think however that one of the first steps is to align the states. I am not wishing to side track this thread, but simply point out that if it was easier to share the hobby then demand and popularity of the hobby would improve. Naturally this would mean using the lowest common denominator approach. We all acknowledge regulation is necessary, but a consistent approach to standardize the keepers/enthusiasts would make inroads and remove many barriers to developing the hobby.

Cheers

 

[Insane]

No offence mate, but from a business perspective, if you have spent 5 years writing business plans and watching the market, you won't do very well in a proper business environment. Theres a time where you need to grab opportunity and go with it rather than being the observer

Note, this is business related , rather than snake related. If he has spent 5 years building up breeding stock, one could argue that he has spent 5 years building the business, rather than watching the market change etc.

Interesting thread though, for someone getting into herping.

the biggest issue i have is as has been mentioned people who are just getting into the hobby and going straight into breeding i have been keeping for 5 years as of tomorrow and have yet to breed any herp.

why because i have spent the time researching the market the animals gaining as much knowledge as possible writing business plans, perfecting my husbandry techniques and trying to figure out what i believe to be the best actions morally, financially and most importantly for the animals.

for me this slump is an opportunity, i currently dont rely on my animals for anything other than the pleasure i get from my interactions with them and they don't cost more than i can afford in fact i can afford to keep quite a few more without worrying about haveing to "offset" the cost.

so im going to be buying up on the best quality natural examples i can of each species of Morelia (to start with). Then im going to take my time rearing them to the best of my ability to be strong healthy snakes. once they are strong and healthy im just going to sit back and watch the market.

 

[yommy]

Another idea or thought i've had is: with this increase in animal numbers and having to hold onto them how have the rat suppliers faired, i would amagine bussiness should be booming with more snakes about.

Any rat suppliers out there with ideas???

 

[garthy]

perhaps further promotion of reptile keeping is the answer? Let people know how easy it is to get a licence and let them know what a great pet/interest a snake can be. Would make for a great debate. Generally only reptile lovers (those that are willing to study the ideal conditions for keeping etc) tend to venture into herps.
However on the flip side, we could end up like the US (Florida/Burmese issue) with people thinking of it in fad terms. cute snake-hungry snake-bigger snake-scary snake-expensive snake-wild snake.

If your worried about impulse buying then maybe forums shouldn`t have for sale threads and classifieds sites should be banned..........

I think that the fact that there are more people breeding reptiles each season has contributed to a slump in reptile sales. Previous seasons i would get a few enquiries a week for each species that i had up for sale, but this season next to nothing. It seems as though the number of people wanting to get into the hobby is starting to plateau and the number of excess animals being bred by people for sale has caused people to start dropping their prices because they are not selling as well as they would have previous seasons.

 

[Waterrat]

Perhaps it's best to let "natural selection" to do its work. This slump will sort out the goats from the sheep and in time things will look bright again. I don't believe we can artificially (promotions) lure people into the hobby, Interest in reptiles is something that has to come from within the person, otherwise as Garthy said, we could end up with new herpers in the game for all the wrong reasons. There are already many amongst us temporarily hanging there because it's cool to have a snake or for the $$$.

 

[Troph]

big ups to Yommy.
Wicked thread.

 

[junglepython2]

Perhaps it's best to let "natural selection" to do its work. This slump will sort out the goats from the sheep and in time things will look bright again. I don't believe we can artificially (promotions) lure people into the hobby, Interest in reptiles is something that has to come from within the person, otherwise as Garthy said, we could end up with new herpers in the game for all the wrong reasons. There are already many amongst us temporarily hanging there because it's cool to have a snake or for the $$$.

Agreed, expanding the hobby only pushes the problem back to a later later date and attracts the wrong kind of people.

 

[yommy]

Seems like we aren't the only ones in the world also seeing sale slumps, a good thread by krefft in the news area titled "Bear Market in Boas: Proposed Laws Strangle Sales of Mutant Snakes" though there current anti-snake bill is having an effect it's interesting to see how it is effecting the side bussiness like rodent etc over there.

Its an interesting read for sure...........

 

[Waterrat]

Interesting read indeed! The word "investors" keeps repeating itself a lot - that's the group of people we have already killed in this country with the ever sliding prices. It seems like we are doomed to follow America in one way or the other.

 

[yommy]

Our hobby incomparision to the US is in it's infancy. At least we can see there mistakes or shortfalls from overseas and avoid history repeating itself. I think even though we are in an ebb as a hobby with sales currently our laws and standards we will put us in good stead for the future. Unfortuneatly we'll always have cowboys in the hobby or the industry but the ebbs or down times sort out those vested for the wrong reasons.
We have the best hobby in the world which can and does pay for itself also not mention the best animals as well and at the end of the day its about our animals not our ego's.

 

[stencorp69]

As far as marketing expansion goes, we all know that exposure is the key. After all how many people suddenly think about keeping a reptile once they have handled someone python for the first time or from simply seeing a great looking set up in a lounge room or pet shop. I guess this only gives the reptile expo's so much more importance.
Hell, I think we now need one in W.A. (Imagine the logistical nightmare of getting that happening)

WAHS Got approached to do a joint expo with Finch Society of WA if enough dealers wanted to get involved with something like that it could be done. We could look at it if WA dealers are interested.

 

[Twin_Rivers]

Great thread, though not a breeder but someone looking to expand my own collection and someone who owns a business which is reliant on the pet industry to make me a living, I have a few thoughts which affect me here locally though probably are mirrored across the country in similar communities.
We are a pet store and as such we sell reptile related products, at least 70% of people who use us as their supplier own animals illegally, either wild caught (local lizards mainly), exotics (corn snakes), or off licence captive bred snakes, I have recently had a customer who just bought a day old childrens hatchling off licence as his first snake and paid $250 for it, I can't understand this from either the buyers or sellers view apart from the fat the she wanted to make money and it was the easiest way for him to buy a snake.
Most people who come in asking about reptile licencing think they have to sit a test etc to get one and thought it is just all too hard, or they do not wish to pay for a licence.
We in the store are limited in how far we can help expand the hobby because we cannot have any animals in store. Especially where we are located the number of breeders are limited I can't say give these people a ring and run around the corner and pick your snake etc, the closest breeder is around an hour away. There are strict guidelines set out by RSPCA and NPWS on requirement for NSW pet shops on all other animals why can't they do the same for reptiles, they are already commercialised?
My last point is sellers are not trying hard enough to sell thier animals. I am after another stimson's Python and rang a reputible breeder on the coast and discussed what I wanted he said he had some there price was fine and could i send him a email with my details what i wanted details etc which i did and have not heard back, there are enough animals available now from both backyard guys and breeders with some repute that buyers do not have to chase up breeders for the animals they want, we are heading to expo's soon and i have no doubt i will find what we are looking for with out chasing up a breeder to get what we want when they are not all that interested.
just my rant,
Phil

 

[pythonmum]

I'm doing my best to expand the hobby in my role as a teacher, but I think one factor which has not been mentioned is the longevity of snakes. Because they live 20 - 30 years when properly cared for, there is not as much turnover as there is in mammals with their shorter lifespan. I often ponder the fate of older snakes that people no longer want. I am sure that many of these are illegally released if the owner can't quickly find a buyer. It's a cruel and horrible death for an animal which has never lived in the wild and is probably outside the natural range of its species.

 

[yommy]

some interesting thoughts there twin rivers and pythonmum and points which haven't been raised before. Shows people still need to be educated in not only the reptiles but the licencing system, but then again there is enough places such as forums and the actual parks and wildlife websites if you do your research.

Hopefully with the expo season fast approaching that awarness will be raised again and these events can be enjoyed by the new and old a like. I've be into reptiles for so long now but expos get you all excited again to see whats being developed and to see what new stuff is out there animal and product wise. I predict good times ahead again for those willing to wait.

 

[pythonmum]

I agree with TwinRivers about licenses - despite the ease of finding out how to get a reptile license, very few people seem to bother. I teach high schoolers who spend most of their free time on the internet, but much of this is social networking and they often neglect to check facts. Many are surprised when I tell them how easy it is to get a reptile license. Those who don't do a bit of research can easily be misinformed by friends or a bad pet store employee. Good pet stores will get them on the right track, as will the factual information out there in books and online. Many parents don't mind the idea of lizards, but object to snakes. They obviously don't realise that snakes are easier to care for! BTW - Full marks to teens on this site who have done their homework and are taking an interest in husbandry.

 

[Australis]

Cheap website and a silver tongue is all you need to swindle people with reptile sales.
Just tell prospective buyers your letting them in early on a yet to be proven morph and
you will sell out at top price - Brown hypos and brown reds are where its at people (newbs).

Good enough marketing?