My Finished Click Clack
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TigerCoastal
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still tryin to decide if i really wanna do it coz the unit is huge! 7+ feet long and if i move ill struggle to find a place that it fits into, was left in the house when i moved in the last ppl couldnt take it to their new place, so i kinda gotta think bout it a bit (Plus talk the mrs into gettin some more snakes for the other enclosures, lol)
Jungletrans
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Clickclack rhread ; missing , presumed hijacked .
WombleHerp
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Tigercoastal.. Have you got covers for those lights? Put very simply snakes can get very bad burns from exposed globes. Worse yet, with thier muscle ability, even a smaller snake could break the globe possibly causing lacerations to the snake, or even electricution at worst, all from having exposed globes.
All the sarcastic, harmful, meaningless posts non relating to the fact Ash is simply happy and excited with her click clack which, from my experience in keeping snakes, is perfectly fine so long as the temps/humidity/hides/branches (in this case dowel) etc are all fine and controlled, you should learn to bite your tongue then to harshly comment on a happy new herp keepers thread, HIJACKING it in the meanwhile, without manners.
As for enrichment in click clacks, it can be done. Putting small branches with leaves every now and again for example, have different smells etc. on them. Also, rotating food items is also good, having for example a quail or DOC every now and again.
larger enclosures with all those furnishings are less hygenic for the snake. being an enclosed area, bacteria is more likely to grow which causes alot of health problems you see.
for E.G:
wooden percing (branches from trees, logs etc) - if wet, can rot and raise humidity, possibly causing a respiratory infection or scale rot.
mulch or bark for substrate - mulch doesn't dry quickly, and also can cause the above mentioned diseases. If the snake is fed in its enclosure, which is reccommended as if you move the snake after feeding you raise the potential for a regurgitation, bits of bark can stick to the food item and possibly cause a block, a prolapse, splinter inside the animal, or even gut impaction (most common in bearded dragons)
Real plants - have the potential to transfer diseases from other animals that may have touched/ gone near the plant if it is not properly quarantined/washed/disinfected.
The dirt/soil from the plant may have fertilizer in it, which could potentially kill your snake being in an enclosed area releasing gasses etc, having food items touch the fertilizer.
also the dirt can breed bacteria causing disease in captive animals.
on top of this all, as you have mentioned, it is more difficult to clean a fully decked out enclosure. It is easier to wipe with F10 a blank melamine wall, or plastic tub, with plastic plants, and change the paper. bacteria is LESS likely to breed if the enclosure doesnt have as many nooks and crannies that are potentially wet when cleaning, but unable to be fully sterilized as they cannot by be taken out of the tank and cleaned then dried and replaced.
just food for thought. Would you say you are really creating a better habitat for your animal? Or potentially a slow death by bacteria because it 'looks' better.
-Natalie.
All the sarcastic, harmful, meaningless posts non relating to the fact Ash is simply happy and excited with her click clack which, from my experience in keeping snakes, is perfectly fine so long as the temps/humidity/hides/branches (in this case dowel) etc are all fine and controlled, you should learn to bite your tongue then to harshly comment on a happy new herp keepers thread, HIJACKING it in the meanwhile, without manners.
As for enrichment in click clacks, it can be done. Putting small branches with leaves every now and again for example, have different smells etc. on them. Also, rotating food items is also good, having for example a quail or DOC every now and again.
larger enclosures with all those furnishings are less hygenic for the snake. being an enclosed area, bacteria is more likely to grow which causes alot of health problems you see.
for E.G:
wooden percing (branches from trees, logs etc) - if wet, can rot and raise humidity, possibly causing a respiratory infection or scale rot.
mulch or bark for substrate - mulch doesn't dry quickly, and also can cause the above mentioned diseases. If the snake is fed in its enclosure, which is reccommended as if you move the snake after feeding you raise the potential for a regurgitation, bits of bark can stick to the food item and possibly cause a block, a prolapse, splinter inside the animal, or even gut impaction (most common in bearded dragons)
Real plants - have the potential to transfer diseases from other animals that may have touched/ gone near the plant if it is not properly quarantined/washed/disinfected.
The dirt/soil from the plant may have fertilizer in it, which could potentially kill your snake being in an enclosed area releasing gasses etc, having food items touch the fertilizer.
also the dirt can breed bacteria causing disease in captive animals.
on top of this all, as you have mentioned, it is more difficult to clean a fully decked out enclosure. It is easier to wipe with F10 a blank melamine wall, or plastic tub, with plastic plants, and change the paper. bacteria is LESS likely to breed if the enclosure doesnt have as many nooks and crannies that are potentially wet when cleaning, but unable to be fully sterilized as they cannot by be taken out of the tank and cleaned then dried and replaced.
just food for thought. Would you say you are really creating a better habitat for your animal? Or potentially a slow death by bacteria because it 'looks' better.
-Natalie.
TigerCoastal
Well-Known Member
Herpsrule, yes i do have covers for the lights i just hadnt installed them when i took that pic as it was taken when i was working out placement of hides ect before the snake went in. An we weren't trying to hijack asharees thread, she mentions that she hasnt got 200 to spend on a viv.... well neither did i but i still have an enclosure untill i can afford to build a better one, and it wouldnt have cost alot more than the set-up of a click-clack, just trying to show others on a budget that it can easily be done
babba007
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Markars, I completely agree with your comments, I just think you came across as a little over-enthusiastic. Ash is obviously very excited about her new snake and the home she has created for him. Ash, maybe when your snake is a little older, you can move him into a bigger enclosure with a bit more enrichment, but for now I'm sure he will appreciate the care you are obviously going to give him. Good luck.
WombleHerp
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It is her choice to use a click clack. She had ALREADY made the enclosure for the snake, and was showing it to us in excitement. You may not have been trying to hijack the thread, but you did.
-Nat
TigerCoastal
Well-Known Member
Sorry herpsrule but i believe click clacks remain in the domain of breeding (keeping STOCK to make $$$$), temp emergency enclosure, or illness not for the people that keep them for the love of the animal. I'd rather be able to sit back with my mates and watch the snake while having a brew than have to go get my lunchbox for people to see. Thats just my opinion.
As for asharee's click clack it is very nicely done and i would be proud of it too if it was what i wanted but it's just not for me
As for asharee's click clack it is very nicely done and i would be proud of it too if it was what i wanted but it's just not for me
WombleHerp
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If you want snakes with RI, scale rot, impaction, and other bacterial infections go right ahead. So long as it LOOKs good right? I'm not stopping you
(on a side note, if ALL antibacterial procedures are followed, and all enclosure furniture is able to be pulled out of the tank and fully cleaned/scrubbed, antibacterialized, and dried including the enclosure walls and floor, without leaving a residue able to create mold, then it is all good and fine. however in my opinion most people do not have the time or the patience to be able to do this AT LEAST once weekly, so the snakes are in a worse off environment anyway...)
if you do this then kudos to you. However majority do not do this properly which is why so many snakes get sick in fully decked out enclosures, and why so many choose the more hygenic version of a click clack.
Where do i start?
yes i admitted that i was a sarcastic so and so in my first and second post and appologised for it. That doesn't make up for it but hopefully i will learn not to be.
Enrichments in click clacks- You stated put small branches with leaves that have different smells, In a click clack you would be refering to twigs not branches and then you contradict yourself later in your post by saying that wooden items can rot and raise humidity ect. also dowel is made of wood.
a click clack is the size of a shoe box- if you packed it full of twigs and leaves it would not provide as much enrichment opportunities as a larger cage.
Mulch or bark as substrate- I am yet to see a plastic container with a paper towel dry quickly when a water bowl is splilt (which is much more likely in a little plastic box than a three foot fish tank or similar due to the portable nature of a click clack)- Breeders choice or mulch would have a higher absorbancy rate than a few sheets of paper towel and looks a hell of a lot better. In a bigger cage a snake is not forced to sit in its wet substrate. It has a hundred other choices available than in the wet patch.
appropriatley sized mulch wont get stuck or ingested as you would notice a bit of 50mm bark stuck to a pinky! there are a hundred other pros and cons for bark or mulch but i wont bother listing them- all substrates have plusses and minuses- select them according your preference- i use breeders choice as a bottom layer and cover it in 50-75 mm bark chips for looks. That is just me, my argument is for a larger cage with more structure than is possible in a click clack.
Real plants- use or dont use ,i personally dont unless it is in my turtles or if i was to set up a frog tank, however many people do use them and as long as the problems are addressed good, fine- there are many realistic fake plants that would trick a botanist these days- I am about to buy a three foot blackboy for my python cage that is fake- tip is- it will fit in my cage but would struggle in a click clack.
cleaning big cages is hard work!, it is fiddly, takes about one hour to clean my big cage once a week and will take longer on the monthly clean. But a dedicated keeper will clean it. I believe that the added time it takes me to clean my cage is well worth it for the benefits it provides.
I would say that i am creating a far superior cage for my animals than a click clack will offer ever hands down. a poor keeper with bad habits will suffer deaths in a big cage or a little cage. a good keeper will be dedicated enough to deal with the disadvantages a big cage comes with. John weigel stated some cage sizes in his book and i believe that these should be adopted as a minimum.
If you are stuck on click clacks for their ease and what ever, what is stopping people from encouraging the use of a big one instead of the sandwhich size- Plastic tubs are available is sizes that i could comfortably fit in. A tighter fitting lid could easily be constructed from the scrap bin at a hardware( as demonstrated at mac herps show) and the larger size would allow for more structure and habitat- natural or not, plastic or wood, tile or rock. what ever
My point was size and quality of the animals environment. People have already demonstrated that cages dont have to be expensive, I have stated alternatives to sandwich sized cages. as i stated before we should encourage younger keepers to do the best they can , not something that is fine, or will do, or is standard.
and as for a slow death. My oldest captive i have had for longer than you have been alive nearly and the i have others that are 10 + years in my care, so It either works, or it is a bloody slow death.
Londos1990
Well-Known Member
Well nice click clack ash, i dont mind the use of Click clacks, i have a fiah tank i have divided to give my snakes i smaller comfortable enclosure, but as ive brought more they are in click clacks purely because i feel my other enclosures are way to big for them, but the time and money has been put into the, and there enclosures and wen i feel there big enough and comfortable enough to move into them i will, but until then ill keep improving the....
WombleHerp
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yes i admitted that i was a sarcastic so and so in my first and second post and appologised for it. That doesn't make up for it but hopefully i will learn not to be.
Enrichments in click clacks- You stated put small branches with leaves that have different smells, In a click clack you would be refering to twigs not branches and then you contradict yourself later in your post by saying that wooden items can rot and raise humidity ect. also dowel is made of wood.
a click clack is the size of a shoe box- if you packed it full of twigs and leaves it would not provide as much enrichment opportunities as a larger cage.
I didnt say 'pack it with sticks' i said a couple, to give different smells. This is obviously different to what you are thinking. Dowel is wood yes, but being smooth and straigh it has the ability to be pulled out of the tank to be quickly washed off with F10, dried, then put back in the tank. logs or similar that have bumpy surfaces and crevaces dont dry as fast, and give bacteria a better chance to grow.
Mulch or bark as substrate- I am yet to see a plastic container with a paper towel dry quickly when a water bowl is splilt (which is much more likely in a little plastic box than a three foot fish tank or similar due to the portable nature of a click clack)- Breeders choice or mulch would have a higher absorbancy rate than a few sheets of paper towel and looks a hell of a lot better.
Breeders choice as a substrate is asking for trouble. it is dusty, and most people tend to 'spot clean' which doesnt always rid all of the faecal matter or wetness, giving bacteria a chance to grow (RI, scale rot, mold). Also, breeders choice contains staples and metallic paper aswell, so if one pellet with a staple got ingested, imagine the havoc that would wreak!!
Paper towel is easily changed and in a smaller container it is easier to see the moisture if the snake has tipped the bowl. Simple, easy, controlled.
In a bigger cage a snake is not forced to sit in its wet substrate. It has a hundred other choices available than in the wet patch.
appropriatley sized mulch wont get stuck or ingested as you would notice a bit of 50mm bark stuck to a pinky! there are a hundred other pros and cons for bark or mulch but i wont bother listing them- all substrates have plusses and minuses- select them according your preference- i use breeders choice as a bottom layer and cover it in 50-75 mm bark chips for looks. That is just me, my argument is for a larger cage with more structure than is possible in a click clack.
Real plants- use or dont use ,i personally dont unless it is in my turtles or if i was to set up a frog tank, however many people do use them and as long as the problems are addressed good, fine- there are many realistic fake plants that would trick a botanist these days- I am about to buy a three foot blackboy for my python cage that is fake- tip is- it will fit in my cage but would struggle in a click clack.
you dont have to put a blackboy in every setup do you... :lol: there ARE smaller fake plants available!! now thats just being ignorant on your part.
cleaning big cages is hard work!
it is fiddly, takes about one hour to clean my big cage once a week and will take longer on the monthly clean. But a dedicated keeper will clean it. I believe that the added time it takes me to clean my cage is well worth it for the benefits it provides.
Exactly!! not many people would put the required amount of time or effort into it, therefore creating a BAD environment for thier snakes in the end anyway.
I would say that i am creating a far superior cage for my animals than a click clack will offer ever hands down. a poor keeper with bad habits will suffer deaths in a big cage or a little cage. a good keeper will be dedicated enough to deal with the disadvantages a big cage comes with. John weigel stated some cage sizes in his book and i believe that these should be adopted as a minimum.
so you have a degree and have written papers have you? :lol:
If you are stuck on click clacks for their ease and what ever, what is stopping people from encouraging the use of a big one instead of the sandwhich size- Plastic tubs are available is sizes that i could comfortably fit in. A tighter fitting lid could easily be constructed from the scrap bin at a hardware( as demonstrated at mac herps show) and the larger size would allow for more structure and habitat- natural or not, plastic or wood, tile or rock. what ever
stuck on click clacks, or choose them as a higher hygenic standard/ better environment for healthier hatchling snakes? hmmmmmmmmm
My point was size and quality of the animals environment. People have already demonstrated that cages dont have to be expensive, I have stated alternatives to sandwich sized cages. as i stated before we should encourage younger keepers to do the best they can , not something that is fine, or will do, or is standard.
I agree with you, it is about the keepers standards. But if you are telling NEW keepers to ad all this stuff to thier tanks, them not knowing how to properly disinfect and clean the tank, you are just asking for them to give thier snakes diseases associated to incorrect standards of hygene. If they know how to properly do that, then fine. But im saying majority wont.
and as for a slow death. My oldest captive i have had for longer than you have been alive nearly and the i have others that are 10 + years in my care, so It either works, or it is a bloody slow death.
Im not saying you personally have bad hygene protocol, however most new keepers wont know what to do with the proper cleaning process, so thier snakes will most probably suffer until they do develop these skills. So for new keepers, it is better for them to have something they can properly look after untill they develop said skills.
Enrichments in click clacks- You stated put small branches with leaves that have different smells, In a click clack you would be refering to twigs not branches and then you contradict yourself later in your post by saying that wooden items can rot and raise humidity ect. also dowel is made of wood.
a click clack is the size of a shoe box- if you packed it full of twigs and leaves it would not provide as much enrichment opportunities as a larger cage.
I didnt say 'pack it with sticks' i said a couple, to give different smells. This is obviously different to what you are thinking. Dowel is wood yes, but being smooth and straigh it has the ability to be pulled out of the tank to be quickly washed off with F10, dried, then put back in the tank. logs or similar that have bumpy surfaces and crevaces dont dry as fast, and give bacteria a better chance to grow.
Mulch or bark as substrate- I am yet to see a plastic container with a paper towel dry quickly when a water bowl is splilt (which is much more likely in a little plastic box than a three foot fish tank or similar due to the portable nature of a click clack)- Breeders choice or mulch would have a higher absorbancy rate than a few sheets of paper towel and looks a hell of a lot better.
Breeders choice as a substrate is asking for trouble. it is dusty, and most people tend to 'spot clean' which doesnt always rid all of the faecal matter or wetness, giving bacteria a chance to grow (RI, scale rot, mold). Also, breeders choice contains staples and metallic paper aswell, so if one pellet with a staple got ingested, imagine the havoc that would wreak!!
Paper towel is easily changed and in a smaller container it is easier to see the moisture if the snake has tipped the bowl. Simple, easy, controlled.
In a bigger cage a snake is not forced to sit in its wet substrate. It has a hundred other choices available than in the wet patch.
appropriatley sized mulch wont get stuck or ingested as you would notice a bit of 50mm bark stuck to a pinky! there are a hundred other pros and cons for bark or mulch but i wont bother listing them- all substrates have plusses and minuses- select them according your preference- i use breeders choice as a bottom layer and cover it in 50-75 mm bark chips for looks. That is just me, my argument is for a larger cage with more structure than is possible in a click clack.
Real plants- use or dont use ,i personally dont unless it is in my turtles or if i was to set up a frog tank, however many people do use them and as long as the problems are addressed good, fine- there are many realistic fake plants that would trick a botanist these days- I am about to buy a three foot blackboy for my python cage that is fake- tip is- it will fit in my cage but would struggle in a click clack.
you dont have to put a blackboy in every setup do you... :lol: there ARE smaller fake plants available!! now thats just being ignorant on your part.
cleaning big cages is hard work!
it is fiddly, takes about one hour to clean my big cage once a week and will take longer on the monthly clean. But a dedicated keeper will clean it. I believe that the added time it takes me to clean my cage is well worth it for the benefits it provides.
Exactly!! not many people would put the required amount of time or effort into it, therefore creating a BAD environment for thier snakes in the end anyway.
I would say that i am creating a far superior cage for my animals than a click clack will offer ever hands down. a poor keeper with bad habits will suffer deaths in a big cage or a little cage. a good keeper will be dedicated enough to deal with the disadvantages a big cage comes with. John weigel stated some cage sizes in his book and i believe that these should be adopted as a minimum.
so you have a degree and have written papers have you? :lol:
If you are stuck on click clacks for their ease and what ever, what is stopping people from encouraging the use of a big one instead of the sandwhich size- Plastic tubs are available is sizes that i could comfortably fit in. A tighter fitting lid could easily be constructed from the scrap bin at a hardware( as demonstrated at mac herps show) and the larger size would allow for more structure and habitat- natural or not, plastic or wood, tile or rock. what ever
stuck on click clacks, or choose them as a higher hygenic standard/ better environment for healthier hatchling snakes? hmmmmmmmmm
My point was size and quality of the animals environment. People have already demonstrated that cages dont have to be expensive, I have stated alternatives to sandwich sized cages. as i stated before we should encourage younger keepers to do the best they can , not something that is fine, or will do, or is standard.
I agree with you, it is about the keepers standards. But if you are telling NEW keepers to ad all this stuff to thier tanks, them not knowing how to properly disinfect and clean the tank, you are just asking for them to give thier snakes diseases associated to incorrect standards of hygene. If they know how to properly do that, then fine. But im saying majority wont.
and as for a slow death. My oldest captive i have had for longer than you have been alive nearly and the i have others that are 10 + years in my care, so It either works, or it is a bloody slow death.
Im not saying you personally have bad hygene protocol, however most new keepers wont know what to do with the proper cleaning process, so thier snakes will most probably suffer until they do develop these skills. So for new keepers, it is better for them to have something they can properly look after untill they develop said skills.
Asharee133
Very Well-Known Member
my thread is turning into a debate book :lol:
WombleHerp
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lol sorry Ash I get like that sometimes xD
I get like that sometimes xD
Asharee133
Very Well-Known Member
nup, my wormy is all boughted for and stuff! and its a her! her name is nalani it means the calm of the skies in hawiiaan and waitin for thermostat and heatmat to arrive
it means the calm of the skies in hawiiaan and waitin for thermostat and heatmat to arrive- Status
