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KatshirT

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As of recent... cough cough... Andy Scott... cough

It has been said by our US counterparts that Hoovabator style incubators are the exception in this hobby we all share.

Personally for a number of years I have incubated everything from elapids, geckos, dragons, GTP's, RSP's and albinos olives and carpets with absulutely no issue with the Hovabator incubator and close to 100% hatch rate on eggs that make it to full term.

Further more I have used nothing less than cricket containers and vermiculite.

I am interested to see if I am truely the minority or outcast with my 'outdated' and 'archaeic' incubation style.

In closing, I missed the thread before it had been shut down but I would just like to add that the SIM style container does seem interesting however I do also recognise that if this thread proves the Hoovabator style is not as outdated as had been summised by our US cousins than perhaps testing with regards to our style of incubation should have been conducted by the Aus rep prior to sales being made and mention of the mode of incubator being required being made crystal clear.

I do not doubt that this style could well become the way of the future but informed decisions is required in this day and age to clear all accountability from the start.

One last thing, I have known breeders (myself included) to use yabbies and small cray fish to up the level of calium in frillies in the months prior to brumation to give them the much needed lift they will need for egg development.
 
interesting thread. would u say that the Hoovabator would be a good incubator to start with.???
 
Basically a hovabator is a styrofoam box with a heating element at the top... These were designed to hatch bird eggs... When you buy a Hovabator, it comes with instructions on how to hatch chicken eggs and such, not reptile eggs...

The top heat design simulates the heat given off by a female bird as she sits on top of her eggs... Reptile eggs are not incubated in this fation in the wild... They do not utilize a radient heat source to heat them during incubation...

They are cheap and easy to aquire and that is why some reptile keepers use them... They use to be pretty popular but the number of users has gone way down because the are oth better, nicer looking options out there...

With that being said, they are not bad incubators when used in conjunction with deli/cricket cups because the eggs are in a damp substrate...

Using this style incubator in conjunction with a no substrate incubation method or our SIM container does not mesh well...

The reason behind this is the air temp in the egg chamber is much warmer than the substrate temp because of the heating element placement... The heating element in these incubators needs to get very hot in orger to heat the ambient air to the proper degree because the heat needs to be pushed down in an un-natural manner.... So if you need to incubate at 85 degrees, the heating element reaches temps of 110 degrees... This causes the substrate to be cooler than the air temp in the SIM box... The cooler moist substrate will not release humdity in the air... The condensation line will stay at the substrate level...

If you leave a cold glass of water in a hot area, you will notice that the condensation will only build up on the glass where the water is and not above the water line... It is kind of the same thing going on in the SIM when used with hovabators...

In my opinion, Hovabators are pretty much old hat and the fact is, they were never ment to be used to hatch reptiles... Are they bad??? No, but they certainly are not the best choice...

I would use a home made wood box with some heat tape on the bottom before I used a Hovabator...

10 years ago, many keepers used them... These days, not so much... Many have upgraded to more suitable methods and incubator styles...

So yes, hovabator users are the minority in this hobby...

Here are the factory instructions and pics...
http://www.randallburkey.com/images/Thermal_Hova-Bator_instructions.pdf
 
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Hovabator incubators come in a range of differant models, some have fans so should have an even temperature. In saying that i just use a fridge or polystyrene foam esky, a thermostat and usually a fan.

If using water as an incubation medium its best to have a plastic lid, suitable containers can be bought from woolies for around $10. It is also more important to have even heating to avoid condesation or drying of the eggs. Although uneven heating can also kill eggs with other incubation methods espcially if heated from underneath as this causes condensation on the lid.
 
No comment Gregg....

And yes hovabators are commonly used I know a lot of people that use this method for incubation..
& I have also tested out the foam esky trick as cris mentioned & found that worked very nicely as well...

Very interesting info about the yabbies/crays KatshirT will have to take that into consideration next time andyscott & myself endevour to breed the frill necks :)
 
Hey Chris,
Yes, the hovabator does come in a few different models but they all have the top heating element and a super outdated waffer style thermostat... The heating element still gets too hot compared to the rest of the incubator still heating unevenly... Like I said, this is fine if the eggs are directly set in the substrate because this is where the humidity lays and where the eggs get their moisture... In the SIM, they take what they need from the air, not what is being forced on them by being in damp substrates...

Also, condensation is good, water droplets are not... With the SIM container, the condensation does not build up enough to cause water droplets to form when its medium is set up properly...

Ok, so let me re-phrase...

The Hovabator is not as commonly used here in the States as it once was... The Hovabator is not even close to being as good as other incubator styles...

It is commonly known that top heated incubators are not as good as bottom heated, side/back heated or circulated air incubators for the incubation of reptile eggs...

itbites,
Obviously you have no comment to my post because what I wrote is proven science and not speculation or opinion... We did not build an entire company based on reptile egg incubation because we do not know what we are talking about or dont know what we are doing...

Seriously, do not be all butt hurt and troll my posts because your frillies did not hatch...
 
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I'm with you KatshirT although I would love to know how you did olive eggs in chinese containers.

Incubating eggs isn't rocket science and there is definately no need to spend silly amounts of money on wizz bang incubators and fancy overpriced containers.If these things were truly needed then the hobby wouldn't be where it is today as not so long ago there wasn't anything specifically designed with reptiles in mind and improvisation was the name of the game.

To my mind the best way to go is to keep it simple,no need to over complicate the process.
 
Incubating eggs isn't rocket science and there is definately no need to spend silly amounts of money on wizz bang incubators and fancy overpriced containers.If these things were truly needed then the hobby wouldn't be where it is today as not so long ago there wasn't anything specifically designed with reptiles in mind and improvisation was the name of the game.

While this might have been true back then, now there are better options that increase hatch rates and produce stronger offspring... As this hobby grows and evolves, information is rolling in that was not available years ago...

And while, as you state, egg incubation is not rocket science, is true, we are finding out that it is very much a real science in and of itself...

It was not too long ago when heating water in a glass aquarium with with a fish tank heater and floating eggs in a container on top of the water was a widely accepted method of incubating reptile eggs... Sure, reptiles hatched with that method as well but would you offer that as a sound method of incubating??? I think not...

Anyway, the folks who are getting away from the hovabator and using better methods are the ones who will see the benefit in change...

Things that fail to change, fail to evolve, and eventually, fail to thrive...
 
This hobby will thrive and eggs will hatch just fine without having to spend stupid amounts of money on "Reptile brand" tubs and incubators.
With incubators just make your own, its so easy, and for tubs if you insist on using the water method like in the SIM tubs then go and buy the Target equivalent and save enough change for a case of throwdowns:p:p:p:p,,


Thanks Gex
 
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While this might have been true back then, now there are better options that increase hatch rates and produce stronger offspring... As this hobby grows and evolves, information is rolling in that was not available years ago...

And while, as you state, egg incubation is not rocket science, is true, we are finding out that it is very much a real science in and of itself...

It was not too long ago when heating water in a glass aquarium with with a fish tank heater and floating eggs in a container on top of the water was a widely accepted method of incubating reptile eggs... Sure, reptiles hatched with that method as well but would you offer that as a sound method of incubating??? I think not...

Anyway, the folks who are getting away from the hovabator and using better methods are the ones who will see the benefit in change...

Things that fail to change, fail to evolve, and eventually, fail to thrive...

I was merely responding to the OP that I am in agreeance with him but since you responded to my post here goes.

I don't buy the idea that something as basic as a plastic container would make one iota of difference with regard to improved hatch rates or produce stronger offspring.Weak embryos will be weak hatchlings (provided they hatch) no matter what you use provided things are set up correctly just about any container will do the job,conversely strong embryos will equal strong hatchlings .

Claims keep being made that the use of these tubs improves hatch rates/stronger offspring.Have you had any independent evidence to back up these claims? If these tubs are as good as you say then sell me on them or at least acknowledge that just about any tub can achieve the same results.
 
So ramsayi, how many of these tubs have you seen and held in person? I also know for a fact that you were one of he first to contact me about them. The only reason you did not buy was because of size. Sure, use your cheap tubs for incubation.

It was the same situation when the microclimate thermostats came into Australia about 3 or 4 years ago. I imported about 10 of them 6 years ago and tried to sell some to other reptile keepers. I got some day/night dimming stats in. Most people told me that $110 was too much for these overpriced pieces of rubbish, they would rather stay with their back of the cage mounted, inaccurate, wire exposed imit stats. They also don't have to spend a hundred bucks on them? Then Tim started importing microclimate, then herpshop started bringing in habistat. Now when people ask to reccomend a brand of thermostat these two names pop up.

The fact is that there are always people that can say something is overpriced without seeing it or touching it. And there are also people that believe that cheaper is better! I have been using air mail to get these tubs in. That is why they are priced the way they are. Its like buying stock in when the Aussie dollar was worthless against the us dollar, do you sell your stock for what you paid for it? Or do you sell it for less than what you paid for it now that the US dollar is stronger?

Once these things come in on ship it will be a totally different ball game. Along with the new choices of tub material and sizing.
 
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There is a huge difference between imit and habistat/microclimate stats the later two are a lot more precise and provide better options dimming etc for different needs.A container however is precisely that a container! I would rather use the analogy of globes.Would a $15 reptile branded spot be any better or worse for providing heat than a $2 spot purchased at a supermarket?
 
Yes, the ones like zoo med and exo terra lasts much longer as their filaments inside are thicker.
 
It always comes back to the tubs. It does not help to try and explain on a forum how sturdy and durable they are. You can ask Fay about that Ramsayi. They will be at the expo, so have a good look at them and then tell me that they are the same as any other tub. You can just about substitue anything in life with something cheaper, does that mean you get exactly what you pay for with the more expensive product? I dont think so.
 
I am very disheartened that my post and specific question has been hijacked by the two very people I was not looking for info from as these 2 are clearly not using Hoovabator style incubators.

I was very specific in wanting to see if other breeders like myself use Hoovabator style incubators in Australia!

I HAVE NO INTEREST IN WHAT MAY OR NOT BE USED IN THE US, I DON'T GIVE A FLYING HOOT WHAT YOUR PERSONAL THOUGHTS ARE GREGG. IN MY YEARS I HAVE NEVER HAD AN ISSUE WITH MY CURRENT STYLE AND DO NOT INTEND ON CHANGING BECAUSE THE US DO IT A CERTAIN WAY!

The simple fact is animals in the US, mainly certain species have a very low life expectancies with years and years of inter/cross/line breeding. This is a certainty and I am not going to get into a DEBATE, If you stand by your product I commend you but now leave my questions to be answered by the people I want to hear from.

In my time I have come accross litle variations in incubation styles, either hoovabator style or heat cord inside some sort ot box/fridge/foamesky and from time to time I have seen enclosures being used.

Fact reptile eggs are buried under ground, heated from what is surrounding them which is ultimately heated from above and that being the SUN.

Hoovabator style are not unnatural and fact is they are every bit as good at hatching anything in anything else is.

I have to make a point that it seems many people seem to defend there own products to the bitter end and if opinions cannot be taken and informed questions asked and answered than close up shop. People are far more educated these days and so will ask far more questions about topics as information is literally at your finger tips.

I do not doubt the SIM product is good but as to what seems to work here is Ausralia with Australian animals seems very different if you were going to compare the reptiles kept in the US and with what is being bred. I am sure the vast majority of the reptiles being kept in the US is 10,000's of kilometers away from where they are naturally found, make no mistake by comparing your exotic animals to the indeginous ones we keep, breed and love in Australia.

Finally, olives in the square containers that are very deep and large I believe from memory they are 1litre sized work for 1-2 eggs.
 
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thats ALOT of chinese you have to eat :p invite me over next time you need some more containers :lol:


I generally buy the containers without the food, much better for the waist line and the wallet...lol
 
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