Lifting the ban on Exotics

[chondrogreen]

OK well land Tortoises still eat some live foods.
Adding to our already established food chain is going to cause decline somewhat.
An escaped Tortoise won't be so harmless to *add species here*. The fact is whatever is added to our wildlife will become an additional predator to something whether it be fauna, flora or both. JMO

 

[Lewy]

I just don't seem to get why all the people that are for it can't seem to understand it NOT a good idea..
And It realy doesn't matter what kind of Conditions you are to follow people will still let animals go and or loose them

This is the one thing the government has gotten right.. keeping exotic animals out the best they can... Every time a new animal is introduced or a native animal dies it puts a huge strain on our ecosystem.. Its not rocket science

 

[unique]

I just don't seem to get why all the people that are for it can't seem to understand it NOT a good idea..
And It realy doesn't matter what kind of Conditions you are to follow people will still let animals go and or loose them

Lewy they understand perfectly well that its not a good idea...they just simply don't care.

same with hybrids...they ''understand'' that hybridising can
lead to health problems and defects....they just don't care.

 

[Boondocker]

These two responses are exactly the kind of brainwashed dogma I referred to in my post above. Dogma that lumps all taxa into the category of doom. Shrill, misinformed talk against even phytophagous pet tortoises epitomises my point nicely.

 

[slim6y]

These two responses are exactly the kind of brainwashed dogma I referred to in my post above. Dogma that lumps all taxa into the category of doom. Shrill, misinformed talk against even phytophagous pet tortoises epitomises my point nicely.

It's interesting you'll use words like myopic instead of short sightedness - yet you're statements appear more short sighted than the combination of everyone else's in the thread.

I realise this may seem as a direct attack on your status - but believe me, it's the comment I am arguing with here.

All imported species - ALL - yes I mean ALL (including us white folk) will have some (whether minimal or not) impact on our environment whether regulated or not.

Tortoises may well have a 'low' impact... But not a NO impact.

Tortoises may well be cute, cuddly and 50 years lived.... But really.... They still have an impact.

Whether you like it or not, it will be a negative one.

Could a tortoise spread a disease?

Could a tortoise begin favouring a rare native plant (quite possible)?

Could a tortoise out compete our native herbivores (unlikely I agree - but possible)?

All I am saying is - you state people on here are narrow minded - yet the same narrow minded view allowed toads into this country...

I'm sorry... as much as I would LOVE a tortoise, I can't accept that more exotics into this country are either needed or should be allowed.

Leave my narrow mind on that

 

[krissy78]

lol chinese food and exotic wildlife are a little diffrent[ but i can understand if u cant tell the diffrence] . i have never herd of chinese food excaping and wreaking havoc on OUR native wildlife .

Funny that's the same thought I had, you just can't use the chinese food in this debate.

 

[Lewy]

It's interesting you'll use words like myopic instead of short sightedness - yet you're statements appear more short sighted than the combination of everyone else's in the thread.

I realise this may seem as a direct attack on your status - but believe me, it's the comment I am arguing with here.

All imported species - ALL - yes I mean ALL (including us white folk) will have some (whether minimal or not) impact on our environment whether regulated or not.

Tortoises may well have a 'low' impact... But not a NO impact.

Tortoises may well be cute, cuddly and 50 years lived.... But really.... They still have an impact.

Whether you like it or not, it will be a negative one.

Could a tortoise spread a disease?

Could a tortoise begin favouring a rare native plant (quite possible)?

Could a tortoise out compete our native herbivores (unlikely I agree - but possible)?

All I am saying is - you state people on here are narrow minded - yet the same narrow minded view allowed toads into this country...

I'm sorry... as much as I would LOVE a tortoise, I can't accept that more exotics into this country are either needed or should be allowed.

Leave my narrow mind on that

Nicely said

 

[toximac]

I just don't seem to get why all the people that are for it can't seem to understand it NOT a good idea..
This is the one thing the government has gotten right.. keeping exotic animals out the best they can... Every time a new animal is introduced or a native animal dies it puts a huge strain on our ecosystem.. Its not rocket science

Why do 'people' excuse it just because they think its not a 'good idea' and say the gov. has got it right when clearly yes..it isn't rocket science.. its a matter of balance and regulation.. YET they seem to just excuse this point and say every single introduced animal to natives die?.. What about the grub they introduced to kill cactus's.. If its heavily researched and introduced in these days, things are fine. Instead of arrogance and saying "oh its not rocket science" how about you look into why we've had disasters and what research was done.. You would see there was next to none.

Lewy they understand perfectly well that its not a good idea...they just simply don't care.

same with hybrids...they ''understand'' that hybridising can
lead to health problems and defects....they just don't care.

What a joke.. What don't they care about reptiles? be more specific. Putting a judgemental statement that all hybridising people don't care on health problems and defects shows how close minded one can be. I do NOT understand perfectly well its NOT a good idea. I KNOW it can be done, and KNOW you could introduce species that would have no effect by research & examples of introductions else ware.
Why Do these people who excuse this think their higher and more caring.. its beyond me.

These two responses are exactly the kind of brainwashed dogma I referred to in my post above. Dogma that lumps all taxa into the category of doom. Shrill, misinformed talk against even phytophagous pet tortoises epitomises my point nicely.

I agree with you Boondocker, your argument is valid yet they have to relate it to spiders and give you a wish washy excuse on what the escaped tortoise might eat natives. Again, No question on why research can't be done, just an accusation on their part.
This is why I Can't stand Australians patriotism/Pride.. these people are stuck in some kinda ego that stops them from 'traveling' and discovering exotics benefits and effects. They say "well move to another country"...Their excuse to anything and everything, true arrogance.

 

[Lewy]

Toximac You just don't seem to get it.. Australia has its own ecosystem and when another animal or insect is introduced it Will put another species of animal/ insect in jeopardy

It realy dose not matter how you word it it will still have the same outcome... Every thing needs to eat one way or another and if some other species come in and starts to fight for survival and start eating the same food that a native animal eats to survive it will put that animal in stress of running out of food

Again pretty simply logic's realy.. It really is just greediness that makes people want to have exotics here and I stand by what I say. These people realy don't give too craps about Australia's ecology what so ever

 

[arbok]

Why do 'people' excuse it just because they think its not a 'good idea' and say the gov. has got it right when clearly yes..it isn't rocket science.. its a matter of balance and regulation.. YET they seem to just excuse this point and say every single introduced animal to natives die?.. What about the grub they introduced to kill cactus's.. If its heavily researched and introduced in these days, things are fine. Instead of arrogance and saying "oh its not rocket science" how about you look into why we've had disasters and what research was done.. You would see there was next to none.

why dont you get over your dim witted perception that humanity is more intelligant then nature... everything seemed to work fine before we put our foot in it, so why would we go and do it again?



What a joke.. What don't they care about reptiles? be more specific. Putting a judgemental statement that all hybridising people don't care on health problems and defects shows how close minded one can be. I do NOT understand perfectly well its NOT a good idea. I KNOW it can be done, and KNOW you could introduce species that would have no effect by research & examples of introductions else ware.
Why Do these people who excuse this think their higher and more caring.. its beyond me.

Because hybridising IS selfish (oh look i can use caps to) and to subject any animal to something of potential harm (unless under scientific circumstances or what have you) is an act of cruelty and hence one can assume, you dont care about the animals. Your posts are narrow minded, and clearly reflect on your selfish and spoilt nature, why dont you go ask mummy for a tortoise?





I agree with you Boondocker, your argument is valid yet they have to relate it to spiders and give you a wish washy excuse on what the escaped tortoise might eat natives. Again, No question on why research can't be done, just an accusation on their part.
This is why I Can't stand Australians patriotism/Pride.. these people are stuck in some kinda ego that stops them from 'traveling' and discovering exotics benefits and effects. They say "well move to another country"...Their excuse to anything and everything, true arrogance.

I may be arrogant, but ur ignorant, i love Australia and its beautiful ecosystem and thinking of cane toads marching accross our country already kills me inside. So why dont you, get over your selfish little desire to own a tortoise and enjoy what you have got.

 

[toximac]

hahah - Cane toads are cute.. how do they kill you inside?.. I never mentioned Cane toads, i mentioned grubs that were introduced to cactus here in Australia, thats been a success. And if you read my post, I said historically things were not researched as they are today, and cane toads being one of them. I enjoy where I live, doesn't mean Im any less because " I don't love it as much as you"... yes. Thats arrogance and ignorance to what Ive written, cudos.

 

[arbok]

hahah - Cane toads are cute.. how do they kill you inside?.. I never mentioned Cane toads, i mentioned grubs that were introduced to cactus here in Australia, thats been a success. And if you read my post, I said historically things were not researched as they are today, and cane toads being one of them. I enjoy where I live, doesn't mean Im any less because " I don't love it as much as you"... yes. Thats arrogance and ignorance to what Ive written, cudos.

you have this amazing ability to just miss the point.... seems to be reoccuring in all your posts

 

[slim6y]

hahah - Cane toads are cute.. how do they kill you inside?.. I never mentioned Cane toads, i mentioned grubs that were introduced to cactus here in Australia, thats been a success. And if you read my post, I said historically things were not researched as they are today, and cane toads being one of them. I enjoy where I live, doesn't mean Im any less because " I don't love it as much as you"... yes. Thats arrogance and ignorance to what Ive written, cudos.

Cactoblastus was introduced to kill another pest - Opuntia - as you suggested, opuntia was poorly researched. But cactoblastus was brought in because it was to be used as a biocontrol agent, not a pet.

Cane toads were researched, but released before the research was concluded, by an arrogant and ignorant Gordonvale farmer.

Tortoises - sure, research. But I'd like to see 30 years minimum research in at least several environments with various reptiles, mammals, marsupials etc etc.

I'm afraid it is a bit of a selfish request to allow exotics into the country.

It's selfish based on the fact that one way or another it will have a negative impact - whether it's a temporary negative impact, permanent negative impact or anywhere in between.

If only other countries realised this before introducing exotics...

And is the USA (Florida) not the best example ever?

Even with stringent regulations - the overall outcome is still negative.

I'm happy with going to the zoo to see the 20 foot rectic.... And that's my unselfish attitude that allows Australia to continue to develop as a biodiverse country with limited exotic fauna and flora.

Narrow view concluded (again).

 

[toximac]

That comment was to arboks response, not for you to comment on about cane toads. I know their an exotic pest.

Im afraid your arrogant into thinking all exotics are harmful ... Look at the benefits Cows, sheep, Pigs, CHICKEN, any farm Animals That give US FOOD!! Even Rats we breed for reptiles Reaps Huge social benefits.
The Benefit for bringing in reptiles is Pet value, and isn't that what Most of you have, "PETS".. Even though some may have no enviromental impact, your too closed minded to even question it and just label all exotics as harmful.
Selfish? Im sorry Slim6y.. White people didn't OWN Australia, but they fled here and killed off native aborigines and used agriculture to reproduce numbers, I find Humans are Selfish regardless, its a fact of life. Exotic Fish imported from Indonesia ect and OUR country is fine with it. You cannot stop the inevitable, just like gay marriage, its bound to happen.. Aswell as exotics, eventually.. Corn snakes are gonna take over Newcastle and so will Milksnakes in many other regions.
So you can continue to be all free loving hippy and deny you keep pets, when i'llgo eat my KFC, Eat my Double quarter pounders (australian beef) mmmm, breed my rats to feed my snakes and you can continue wingeing about exotics, I'll think of the benefits.

 

[slim6y]

Sheep, pigs, cows etc and etc are the scurge on this country - deofrestation (for farms), excessive irrigation, fertiliser run-off, methane production etc etc...

I'm afraid the news is all bad for us... We're a terrible race of animals - we're shockingly ignorant and sellfish.

So your argument, if I am right, is:

"We've already nabbed up our environment so what's wrong with nabbing it up some more?"

And my comments earlier suggested white folk were also a pest - I already know that.

My mind is far from closed toximac - please define what you believe is a closed mind (you can pm that to me so we stay on topic here) - but for definitions I'd suggest a closed mind is one who can't accept that other's may be right/correct.

Now I've never thought you were incorrect - and i did suggest I had a narrow point of view (I ended with narrow view concluded) - however you suggest now I am more narrow minded than your suggestion - bringing in exotics under the pretense we'll study them first....

Will you fund this?

There is NO animal here that will provide no or minimal impact that's why we don't need to nab up our environment any more... Case closed - narrow view or not!

So - when you can provide evidence to suggest bringing in exotics will be beneficial to Australia's environment, social and economic then I'll consider swaying my argument. But so far the arguments provided are incredibly weak like a Victorian beer.

good luck, I'm a difficult person to sway... And I want a tortoise too!

 

[FAY]

Everytime a thread starts about exotics it ends up the same way. Same ole..same ole..arguing and name calling

But like politics and religion...no one ever agrees

 

[Colin]

Everytime a thread starts about exotics it ends up the same way. Same ole..same ole..arguing and name calling

But like politics and religion...no one ever agrees

:lol: maybe we should have another hybrid thread instead