GTP Prices

[levis04]

Hey...
..
i havent really been follow the GTP market recently...
but i just noticed URS are selling there juveniles for 1400 each...
and last i remember they were up around 7000
...
im just wondering what has lead to such a dramatic price drop...
and if they will continue to drop even further over the next few years...
or if these prices are simply because of the quality of the snakes...
..
any information would be great...
(the other explanation is my mind is completely shot and the prices have never been that high, seems to be the more likely situation)
thanks

Just to answer you question, there are alot of people now breeding gtps and there for they will naturally come donw in price as more are produced. There are Aussie natives and non native gtps on the market. Qualltiy snakes will always be worth more imo, but in saying this you could buy one for 1400 and still be very happy with what you get. It all comes down to the buyer and where you want to spend your money so shop around.

 

[Waterrat]

Just to answer you question, there are alot of people now breeding gtps and there for they will naturally come donw in price as more are produced. There are Aussie natives and non native gtps on the market. Qualltiy snakes will always be worth more imo, but in saying this you could buy one for 1400 and still be very happy with what you get. It all comes down to the buyer and where you want to spend your money so shop around.

.... and know the difference between quality and quality - that takes some savvy.

 

[Perkele]

This must be the most ridiculous thread I have seen for a long time. People who know nothing about GTPs getting advice and comments from those who know even less. I just have to laugh.

"wow thats good info, never knew their where different localities of gtp. well you learn somthing new every day."
Orangesnake, if you're half smart, stop reading this nonsense because really, you aren't learning nothing here. That is, apart from wrong totally wrong information. I mean it.

i provided the link to the blog purely because it explained that there were different localities associated with the GTP, both australian (your book states 2), mainland groups and island groups (PNG/Biak/Sorong etc). Greg Maxwell's explanation describes them differently.

i never said that you could tell a locality from the way they look etc, i think the blog is incorrect there. i also stated that it was my opinion that australian hatchlings were yellow, not red or brown like some others (biak etc), which agrees with your book.

there are so many threads on this forum where someone asks about the prices of GTPs dropping, and they getting abused as n00bs. "GTP-essential info" is ok (as with any book/article, there are disagreements and discrepancies), but with people today they want information now and they use the internet. a lot of it is wrong, i agree. it's the same with medical advice and news.

but the suggestion that "People who know nothing about GTPs getting advice and comments from those who know even less" is a bit harsh. i would suggest that this a slight overreaction to the general happenings on this board, and the "innocence" (more ignorance) of people simply searching for information on an animal that is both beautiful and unique.

maybe a simple "i disagree with this information, i made a thread to help people find more correct info, maybe don't trust everything on the internet" was in order.

 

[Waterrat]

i provided the link to the blog purely because it explained that there were different localities associated with the GTP, both australian (your book states 2), mainland groups and island groups (PNG/Biak/Sorong etc). Greg Maxwell's explanation describes them differently.

i never said that you could tell a locality from the way they look etc, i think the blog is incorrect there. i also stated that it was my opinion that australian hatchlings were yellow, not red or brown like some others (biak etc), which agrees with your book.

there are so many threads on this forum where someone asks about the prices of GTPs dropping, and they getting abused as n00bs. "GTP-essential info" is ok (as with any book/article, there are disagreements and discrepancies), but with people today they want information now and they use the internet. a lot of it is wrong, i agree. it's the same with medical advice and news.

but the suggestion that "People who know nothing about GTPs getting advice and comments from those who know even less" is a bit harsh. i would suggest that this a slight overreaction to the general happenings on this board, and the "innocence" (more ignorance) of people simply searching for information on an animal that is both beautiful and unique.

maybe a simple "i disagree with this information, i made a thread to help people find more correct info, maybe don't trust everything on the internet" was in order.

My comments were general not specific to you Perkele or anyone else. I feel that some of the advice given was incorrect, given by people who OBVIOUSLY know very little or nothing about GTPs and that is the truth.
You sound like an intelligent, polite person, would you give an advise on nuclear physics (unless you are NF) on their forum?

 

[Perkele]

i reacted as most of the posts in this thread were very much "why is this?" "i think it might be" posts, and mine was a suggestion of information. i took offence as i once didn't know anything about GTPs, discovered how beautiful they were, wanted one, and then did the research. a lot of research. books, magazines, the internet and from owners.

my grasp of nuclear physics would possibly be better then most on this forum, but fairly lacking on a nuclear physics forum. i would still feel confident commenting on said forum if i had done the research on nuclear physics, which is in part technical physics and part theoretical.

 

[Waterrat]

my grasp of nuclear physics would possibly be better then most on this forum, but fairly lacking on a nuclear physics forum. i would still feel confident commenting on said forum if i had done the research on nuclear physics, which is in part technical physics and part theoretical.

Good on you! It would be good if others did as much research as you have done before giving advice. I repeat - my comments weren't aimed at you.

 

[Perkele]

no worries.

it's interesting to think about: 1st year uni students this year are too young to remember a world without widespread access to the internet. it's bred a lack of ability to research using other methods. i'm guilty of falling prey to the ease of researching that way, but i know it's not always correct and i take it with a grain of salt.

btw, got your "spectacular snakes" book for my girlfriend for her birthday and she was pumped

 

[Waterrat]

I am glad that we are on the same path. A have been reprimanded by the mods in the past for not being tolerant to young people with less experience, etc.. There are many bright young kids on this site (and elsewhere) and it's a pleasure to communicate with them and I am always happy to help if I can. However, I am afraid I suffer acute allergy to stupidity and laziness and it often reflects in my posts. Should I apologise for it?

The internet is a terrific source of information for those who are able to sort the facts from the crap. Call me old-fashioned but you can't beat published literature.

Cheers

 

[Origamislice]

This must be the most ridiculous thread I have seen for a long time. People who know nothing about GTPs getting advice and comments from those who know even less. I just have to laugh.

"wow thats good info, never knew their where different localities of gtp. well you learn somthing new every day."
Orangesnake, if you're half smart, stop reading this nonsense because really, you aren't learning nothing here. That is, apart from wrong totally wrong information. I mean it.

i would like to know at what information you are aiming at. yes i know im not to experianced in GTP's and i strive to learn more about them BUT what i do know is that you can get blues and reds GTP and that is all there was to the question someone had asked. and no i didnt just look it up on the internet as i DO hapen to know that it can be full of wrong info i read it in a book, not sure of the name though.

 

[Frustration]

I believe this thread has gone a little off topic lol...
i understand all of your points against people being lazy and not doing thorough research...
but the original question was in regards to the price of GTPs and such a dramatic drop...
which has now been answered, but still a drop of 5000 is hard to believe especially if you have not been following the market....
and the answer to this question is not provided by published literature or a variety of other sources... and it seemed to be a reasonable topic for discussion...
after all the majority of us are here to further expand our knowledge...
and even if somebody doesnt have a FULL understanding of a topic i think they should still share their opinion... hence the term "discussion"

 

[Origamislice]

and even if somebody doesnt have a FULL understanding of a topic i think they should still share their opinion... hence the term "discussion"

i agree.

 

[Perkele]

there are numerous threads on this topic, some talking about a drop from $15000 to $5000 (few years old). without dredging them up, it's a conversation/discussion that has been had.

if you ever are lucky enough to feel one of these little guys, you'll know why they will never be $300 snakes. they are delicate and beautiful, and will always have a higher value then more common and resilient snakes.

otherwise it's essentially a mixture of simple economics, supply and demand, and an increase in information about how to care for them well. there are more being bred successfully, therefore a higher supply. and URS are lucky enough to have all the equipment and storage and money to get a proper set up. they also have a few clutches going at once.

 

[Waterrat]

but the original question was in regards to the price of GTPs and such a dramatic drop...

and the answer to this question is not provided by published literature

Point taken.
The first page or two was all about colours, etc., very little to your question.
In the end, are you happy with the information you have received?

 

[Frustration]

quite simply, yes...
but even though the questions and conversation about the coloration of snakes may be slightly off topic... i believe that is a reasonable change of topic with in a thread...
however the change to an argument regarding copyright laws and the lack of knowledge behind certain responses is a bit of a stretch, and i still fail to see the need for it...

 

[chondrogreen]

To answer the question a heap of smuggled animals made it onto licence here.
In 2 seasons many keepers had enough of these adults to pair up and produce a heap of clutches ontop of what was already available.
Today only a few years later, everyone is a GTP owner lol. They are as common as childreni (slight exageration but not far off surely haha)

IMO if you plan to buy, only purchase from known lines such as URS and those breeding from them.
Only way to stop a black market is to stop paying those involved in it

 

[Kenshin]

wow alot of threads do turn into an utter *****fight on here lately

yes there are people that know almost nothing on gtps - will these people buy some i highly doubt that they will before they actually know what they are doing

for these people i will agree that reading is your best friend and on this subject theres not alot of people in AUS that breed chondro's that dont have this book

Mike Swan Herp. Books - The More Complete Chondro AU $ 75.00

fantastic book on chondro

also another book i can highly recommend that covers all of AUS pythons for a measly 50 bucks is

Mike Swan Herp. Books - Keeping and Breeding Australian Pythons AU $ 50.00

the above book was the only one i could find a fantastic article on breeding imbricata's it also has a good article on gtps as well

 

[stencorp69]

... Should I apologise for it?

if your asking the question - as a sponsor you propably should - doesn't reflect well for the site...

 

[wokka]

It is hard to know what to do when you read some of the BS on this site. Do you let it pass and then it becomes yet another "internet fact" which is deemed be true because it is written on the internet; or do you challenge the wrongs and then get labelled as an intolerant killjoy.
There comes a point when those who know, just give up, and then the resource of knowledge is lost. If you dont know ask a question but dont state your opinion as a fact which may mislead others!

 

[zulu]

re GTP

Hi frustration,there isnt anything wrong with the 1400 GTPs at URS,the quality and colours are good as theyve been captive bred for a long time,they are just a big player in the market place and have to move stock to pay wages. For reading the perfect chondro is very good or the web site fine green tree pythons.

 

[Snake_Whisperer]

To answer the question a heap of smuggled animals made it onto licence here.
In 2 seasons many keepers had enough of these adults to pair up and produce a heap of clutches ontop of what was already available.
Today only a few years later, everyone is a GTP owner lol. They are as common as childreni (slight exageration but not far off surely haha)

IMO if you plan to buy, only purchase from known lines such as URS and those breeding from them.
Only way to stop a black market is to stop paying those involved in it

Correct me if I'm wrong (it happens more and more, the older and less smarter I get), are the Chondros kept and bred by URS not imports that made it onto the books through the amnesty? I am certainly no GTP expert but by comparing what they are selling (hatchlings born at around 8 grams), this is not consistent with the numbers I have heard are standard for legitimate Aussie GTP's (around 13-15gms). My point being, what are you calling a legitimate market versus a black market? As far as I understand, the only truly "legitimate" GTP's in Australia would be the legally collected and subsequently bred, Aussie GTP's available through Michael Cermak, Adrian Hemens, and anyone else who has successfully bred from their lines. As I said, I don't know who else has run lines of legitimate Greens from non imported stock but of course there may be more.

It is hard to know what to do when you read some of the BS on this site. Do you let it pass and then it becomes yet another "internet fact" which is deemed be true because it is written on the internet; or do you challenge the wrongs and then get labelled as an intolerant killjoy.
There comes a point when those who know, just give up, and then the resource of knowledge is lost. If you dont know ask a question but dont state your opinion as a fact which may mislead others!

Too true Wokka. It seems to me, every time I meet an old school herper in person, the general concensus is that, the pointless bickering, back-stabbing, general stupidity, etc.. completely puts them off participating in forums like this. A pity for those who do not interact with the herp community in any way other than on the computer. As a 15+ year vet stated to me this past weekend, "Too many overnight experts here. They buy a snake, read a few posts, they are now ready to give professional advice. All those "experts" are just too lazy to put in the hard yards and learn from good old fashioned hands on experience."

This is not to say that forums like these are no good. As Wokka said, if you are capable of sorting the rubbish from the goods, there is a wealth of extremely useful information available here. If, however, people continue to insist on slagging the men and women who have spent years and years learning and fine tuning their parts of the herp hobby, soon there will be naught left but these useless armchair "experts" to learn from (on the internet that is). That is a worry. Not for myself, but for the animals dependant on their care.