RP Argument...

[bobby2]

Can any one tell me if this jungle is Reduced Patterned? I'm having a huge agrument with a friend over it - he is saying yes because is has a dorsal stripe and has less patterning than usual - but i was under the impression that they have to be reduced to a certain extent before you can call them reduced and this one is not 'reduced' enough -

how do you define 'reduced patterned'?

is there any unanimous standard or does it vary from opinion to opinion? sorry for the bad pics - just needed to give a vague idea of the patterning...

 

[Rep-Style]

look at the rpm carpets on southern x reptiles, it will give you a great idea of yours compared to one of theirs

 

[ihaveherps]

look at the rpm carpets on southern x reptiles, it will give you a great idea of yours compared to one of theirs

I fail to see how comparing an animal like the one in the original post to a Jag, is fair by any means, nor helps decide if the animal here in question is reduced or not.

 

[aspidito]

Its a bit like the 'Hypo melanistic' debates, the definitions are related to or compared against a typical 'wild type' of the same species & locale.
So if you know where this line originated all you have to do is compare it with them.

 

[syeph8]

70% minimum has to be the lighter colour IMO to count as RPM. (70% yellow on a high yellow jungle for example)

i dont think this is an industry standard, just what i would be happy paying for (agree with aspidito it is a subjective thing)

 

[junglepython2]

I fail to see how comparing an animal like the one in the original post to a Jag, is fair by any means, nor helps decide if the animal here in question is reduced or not.

+1

 

[carpetmuncher]

RPM is synonomous with jag, people like using it because they think it's some sort of code the authorities don't know. as far as your snake is concerned it is not a jag, and appears to be a normal jungle without any reduced patterning. bear in mind that there is a lot of variation in the normal patterning.

 

[The Devil]

I've been breeding jungles for better than 10 years and it's only recently that the "reduced pattern" tag has emerged. If and I repeat IF there is such a thing as reduced pattern just how is that defined and to what do you compare it with to make that judgment.
Do I compare any pic I see tagged as RP to my 13 y.o. jungle???? and use that as my benchmark.

In this day of the internet and the ability to post pics tags such as RP or honey anything are just stupid. Just post a pic and let other see what you have.
If we are to continue to go down the track of using "tags" I'll have to start calling some of my jungle babies something like "play jungles", as with some of them I played around with the incubation method and temps ect.....

Yes, that is a very nice looking jungle.................

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Heres a jungle i would consider has a true reduced patterned ,
Also this is not my photo or jungle .
Image is the property of Mark Sim .
To me a reduced pattern means that the pattern is even further reduced from a 50/50 banded pattern like in this photr their can be a reduced half banded 50/50 pattern .

But the photo posted at the beginning of this thread is not a reduced pattern .


cheers
Roger

 

[The Devil]

I'm guessing that Mark has been dealing with someone who has RPM's. I have a pic of a jungle from a breeder with almost an identical head pattern. I think they are call jungle RPM which is a nice way of saying ### jungles or jungle ###..............

To me, totally different from the run of the mill jungles that people call reduced pattern........

 

[Basssman]

That Jungle of Mark Sims has nothing to do with RPM's/Jag's it was bred quite a number of years ago from normal jungle parents im pretty sure.

Cheers Sam

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Nev ,
That jungle was born ages ago and died quite a few years ago ,well before so called RPM turned up in OZ ?
NO RPM ie jag in it that jungle at all .
Hence the confusion when jags are named RPM
There will always be confusion in these situations, thats the nature of the internet.

I used reduced pattern to describe a few of my offspring , these true reduced patterned individuals are not common and are bred in a totally random fashion. IE not a genetic inherited pattern.
heres a example .
A 50/50 patterned jungle next to his sib a reduced patterned jungle .
These are the older terms used before the latest RPM name hit the australian internet .
I guess my posts are pointless these days because most users on the net just accept anything stated as facts by anyone who cares to comment as such .
There were widely used terms in herpetoculture for the many pattern variations in carpet python ,ie 50/50 , etc etc

ALSO this thread is not about RPM MOPRHS its about reduced patterning on carpet pythons,
the difference is that reduced patterning on a carpet python IE prossie carpets which is more common, or in jungles which is not a common pattern.
Both of these patterns are not genetic IE are not reproduced Co Dom fashion of inheritance

UNLIKE RPM MORPHS which are a Co Dom inheritance .

 

[bobby2]

it seems people have different standards, roger i've heard that same definition and i think that is what i'd probably count as reduced if i was buying. The ones on southern x reptiles are both within those limits and some are well outside of them - i guess the tag 'rp' only matters when you need a reason to bump up the price of a nice python - then again, there are ones that are quite obviously reduced... it's just where you draw the line. i love my ester but personally i wouldn't call her reduced patterned.

 

[Colin]

Heres a jungle i would consider has a true reduced patterned ,
Also this is not my photo or jungle .
Image is the property of Mark Sim .
To me a reduced pattern means that the pattern is even further reduced from a 50/50 banded pattern like in this photr their can be a reduced half banded 50/50 pattern .

But the photo posted at the beginning of this thread is not a reduced pattern .

cheers
Roger

I agree with roger. the jungle roger posted is spiderman (now deceased I heard) and owned by mark sim. I really think we need to take tags and labels like RP as just a guide to what an animal looks like rather than a specific line or morph etc.

That Jungle of Mark Sims has nothing to do with RPM's/Jag's it was bred quite a number of years ago from normal jungle parents im pretty sure.

Cheers Sam

exactly right sam. that jungle spiderman (and spiderwoman) were from what I understood from personal communication from mark bred from the SXR line jungles from cirrus x aphrodite

pics were taken by mark sim when he owned spiderwoman (now owned by me)

 

[Jungle_Freak]

I agree Col but i would still class marks spiderman and spidergirl as reduced patterned jungles ,
But they are not genetic mutations for there patterns , LOOKS etc.
Unlike true RPM morphs which are Co Dom genetically inherited etc
So if people can grasp the 2 difinitions
DENINTION ONE . Reduced pattern ie in prossie carpet and in some jungles but is not genetic ,
ie selective bred usually in jungles or in the case of prossie carpets just part of natural variation within wild populations for that locality .

DEFINITION TWO . RPM as in Reduced Pattern Morph that is genetic , ie Co dom inheritance

hope that clears that up
cheers
Roger

 

[Colin]

I totally agree with you roger. cheers

 

[TigerCoastal]

I agree Col but i would still class marks spiderman and spidergirl as reduced patterned jungles ,
But they are not genetic mutations for there patterns , LOOKS etc.
Unlike true RPM morphs which are Co Dom genetically inherited etc
So if people can grasp the 2 difinitions
DENINTION ONE . Reduced pattern ie in prossie carpet and in some jungles but is not genetic ,
ie selective bred usually in jungles or in the case of prossie carpets just part of natural variation within wild populations for that locality .

DEFINITION TWO . RPM as in Reduced Pattern Morph that is genetic , ie Co dom inheritance

hope that clears that up
cheers
Roger

Hey Roger could you please elaborate, or give an exaple for this? What traits in what species are co-dom?

 

[ShadowDragon]

Before jags (oh, terribly sorry, RPMs) turned up in Australia, or before people admitted on forums that they had them? I'm not even going to enter into what the animal Roger has posted is, nor do I particularly care to be brutally honest. But let's not kid ourselves here, jags have been around for ages, it doesn't hold any weight to suggest its integrity can be assured based on the fact that no one started selling RPM(MMMMM??)s publicly until years after this was hatched.

I agree IHH, comparing jungles to jags (oops there I go again) is unreasonable.

The snake in the pic doesn't have a reduced pattern, and isn't an RPM, a jag or a dodo. It's pretty, and I think that's enough really.

 

[Cheyne_Jones]

Hey Roger could you please elaborate, or give an exaple for this? What traits in what species are co-dom?

The RPM morph (jag) is a co-dom morph with the super form being a leucistic dead snake.

 

[Kenshin]

i wonder why all the leucistic supers die they would look unreal