NSW Minimum Cage Sizes any update?

[markars]

So a 60cm x 30cm enclosure (floor area 1800cm2) which is commonly used to keep Stims, Spotteds, Childrens is more than adequate to meet the requirements.

A 90cm x 60 cm or 120cm x 60cm enclosure (floor area 5400 - 7200cm2) which is commonly used to house most carpets is more than adequate to meet the requirements.

A 120cm x 60cm or 150cm x 60cm enclosure (floor area 7200 - 9000cm2) which is commonly used to house BHP's is more than adequate to meet the requirements.

So what's the big deal !!!

The big deal is that most are using plastic tubs far smaller than that. those cage sizes mentioned seem very reasonable and easily achieved. (and possibly a little understated.)

I'd also like to point out to the anti click clack brigade. Sure keeping and adult in an small click clack is unreasonable, but what about a click clack or tub (they come in very big sizes) of the appropriate size? I know if i were a python which one i'd like to be kept in. I certainly wouldn't choose the glass fronted enclosure where i am ogled upon all day and stressed out of my brain. Glass front enclosures are for the keepers pleasure only don't pretend otherwise.

I don't use click clacks for adults as like many others i like to view my animals but i certainly can't ridicule anyone keeping them in appropriate sized tubs from an animal welfare perspective.

The problem with click clacks is that there is no standard, New keepers don' t know when to use them or for how long. I have seen new keepers keeping their animals in the chinese food containers that they came in when they bought it from the reptile show! ( what happened to bags i will never know! At the last reptile show I saw bluetongues stuffed into food containers and they had to bend to fit in! ) when to up grade them. In my opinion there are NO tubs or click clacks that are suitable for a sub adult/adult carpet or diamond (which i believe are our most popular snake) there simply is no appropriate size A properly constructed cage of a large size give oportunity for ample hides and cage furnishings. I have plastic tubs of all sizes, i use them to store tools , beer and camping gear. They are great for that purpose. but as a permanent snake cage they suck.

How many of you have seen inadequate tub adult set-ups?

Simple answer in my opinion- all tubs are inadequate for adults.

 

[girdheinz]

There is no standards proposed at all for hatchlings and juveniles other than 1 absolute minimum. In fact it is encouraged in the code that a keeper upgrade their enclosures as the animal grows (this is where click clacks are more than useful). One of the major concerns from the veterinary advice was sick hatchlings and juveniles that were kept in inadequately large enclosures whilst young.

The sizes will apply to average adults of each species only.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I ask you all to keep in mind that, while opposition to MANDATED enclosure sizes has been unanimous amongst members of the consultative group, and has probably been the major point of discussion with DECCW, the whole Code of Practice covers every aspect of the way you keep your reptiles in the 'privacy' of your own home. Even the best keepers will be able to be 'pinged' for something the Department considers improper, if the inspectors (who will likely have no experience, just a rule book and a tape measure...) look hard enough.

Those who don't want to comply will simply drop out of the system, and the Department will never catch them, so the only ones under scrutiny will be those who are licensed and therefore accessible.

 

[waruikazi]

Yes a proposal is a proposal but if it is the final proposal that means it is the final proposal and there will be no more proposals... Meaning it is too late to add your input. See what i'm getting at?

If you want to have your 2 cents worth you need to make your payment before the final proposal.

A proposal is just that....a proposal....

 

[FAY]

Yes a proposal is a proposal but if it is the final proposal that means it is the final proposal and there will be no more proposals... Meaning it is too late to add your input. See what i'm getting at?

If you want to have your 2 cents worth you need to make your payment before the final proposal.

A proposal whether final or not is still only a proposal...it is not set in stone.

Can you see what I am getting at?? :lol::lol:

 

[Bax155]

I've just had a quick look at the draft, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see any problem with it at all. (I only looked at pythons)

For Class A pythons which includes Stimsons, Spotteds, Childrens and Pygmy's
Adult enclosure:
Length 45 – 60 cm
Width 30 – 45 cm
Floor area 1,350 –
2,700 cm2

For Class B pythons including Woma, Water, RSP, Jungle, GTP
Adult enclosure:
Length 60 – 90 cm
Width 45 – 60 cm
Floor area 2,700 –
5,400 cm2

Class C which includes BHP, Darwin, Coastal, Diamond, Inland
Adult enclosure:
Length 90 – 150 cm
Width 60 – 90 cm
Floor area 5,400 –
13,500 cm2

So a 60cm x 30cm enclosure (floor area 1800cm2) which is commonly used to keep Stims, Spotteds, Childrens is more than adequate to meet the requirements.

A 90cm x 60 cm or 120cm x 60cm enclosure (floor area 5400 - 7200cm2) which is commonly used to house most carpets is more than adequate to meet the requirements.

A 120cm x 60cm or 150cm x 60cm enclosure (floor area 7200 - 9000cm2) which is commonly used to house BHP's is more than adequate to meet the requirements.

So what's the big deal !!!

:shock: I'm actually going to have to make enclosures smaller if these get the pass, looks like I'll be putting dividers between dividers!! maybe they will need to give me ceased snakes to fill the empty spots that I would have

 

[waruikazi]

What if a man proposes to a woman? That is set in stone... well there is atleast a stone involved, so lets say set with a stone. And i've never heard of anyone getting out of one of those proposals, not cheaply anyway.

Lol Fay i can see us arguing semantics for a while here so i'll try to be clear and explain why i think it is important to distinguish the small difference between a proposal and a final proposal even though you are right that they are both proposals which is a bit of a no brainer. A proposal is a suggestion by lobbiests to an authorative entity regarding some kind of contract. A final proposal is the last suggestion by lobbiests to an authorative entity regarding some kind of contract. In other words that means, like i said earlier, that there will be no more proposals after it has been submitted.

So why do i think this difference is important? I'm glad you asked Fay. If you decide not to give any input into the discussions before the final proposal has been proposed, just because the talks hadn't reached the final proposal stage, you will miss out on your input going into any proposal. So if you want to have your input, like i said in my other posts in this thread, you need to make you suggestions to the lobby group/s before the final proposal has been made. Personally i don't like the idea of leaving an issue important to me to be decided by people that i don't have faith in and hope for the best outcome, which is basically what you are doing if you wait until the last minute and hope it doesn't get through parliament. I suppose the argument could be made that if someone is not intelligent enough to work this out for themselves then perhaps they shouldn't be giving any advice on important issues, such as this one. But i think that could be a topic for another discussion.

A proposal whether final or not is still only a proposal...it is not set in stone.

Can you see what I am getting at?? :lol::lol:

 

[wokka]

Readers seem to be zeroing in on cage size guidelines in the draft, Code of Practice, on exhibition. Firstly these are guidelines, not minimums or maximums, and the advisory group accepted there are circumstances where smaller or larger cages may be appropriate. Cage sizes should not be considerred in isolation from other more important parameters, particularly temperature and the keepers experience and observation.
For example; Many experienced keepers do not use thermostats but I always reccomend that new keepers start with a thermostat until their observational skills and knowledge base improves. Larger cages may remove the need for a thermostat.