Rock Python

[camo13]

I'm not trying to get abused here but is it possible that because of the scarcity of these snakes if someone were to come into possesion of one legally, they would keep it very quiet due to the high possibility of having the snake taken from them illegaly?
Just a point of interest i thought i would raise

 

[waruikazi]

Ok i've found one article by Woinarski that adresses a 'decline' in oenpelli numbers. Here is what it says:

'The total area of the western Arnhem Land massif is about 34 000 km2. Within this area, much of the habitat is probably unsuitable (insufficiently rocky or topographically complex). As a large solitary predator feeding on prey at relatively low abundance, its population density is probably generally low. There is some anecdotal indication of at least local decreases, possibly associated with illegal collecting in the most accessible sites. There is also some possibility of decline associated with changing fire regimes.

Accordingly, the Oenpelli python may be classified as Vulnerable (under criterion C2a(i)) due to:
• population size estimated at fewer than 10 000 mature individuals;
• continuing decline, observed, projected or inferred, in numbers of mature individuals; and
• no subpopulation estimated to contain more than 1000 mature individuals.

The evidence for decline is admittedly scant, circumstantial or conjectural, and there is no information available on population substructure.' 'Oenpelli Python, Woinarski, 2006, http://www.nt.gov.au/nreta/wildlife/animals/threatened/pdf/lostfromlandscape.pdf

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Just to clear up a few things (I'm at a bit of a disadvantage because I'm at Mowanjum at the moment and only have limited access to a computer...)

I indicated in my posts that the NT doen't allow the RANDOM collection of herps for sale into the trade. There are ways of getting things you want, but it's not always easy, not withstanding Reedy's activities, and would never apply to oenpelliensis. Also, I pointed out that the decline in vertebrate biomass appears to have PRECEEDED the arrival of toads, and in an article I wrote for Scales & Tails last year, I indicated that much of the loss could be attributed to habitat change, resulting from invasive grasses and the consequently changed fire regimes, along with feral animals, including toads. If you read Woinarski's book, you would be aware of his concern about the desperate decline in the mammalian fauna in the top end in the last 20 years.

Overall, the fauna in the Territory is under enormous pressure from all sorts of influences. I think it would be naive to suggest that Morelia oenpelliensis is immune from these pressures - it lives in areas which may be difficult to access, and not much is known about it. Just because we have difficulty assessing population densities and changes in said densities, doesn't mean we should assume that all is well. Anecdotal evidence from several respected scientists and respected field observers tells us that all is not well in paradise...

Jamie.

 

[waruikazi]

Just to clear up a few things (I'm at a bit of a disadvantage because I'm at Mowanjum at the moment and only have limited access to a computer...)

I indicated in my posts that the NT doen't allow the RANDOM collection of herps for sale into the trade. There are ways of getting things you want, but it's not always easy, not withstanding Reedy's activities, and would never apply to oenpelliensis. Also, I pointed out that the decline in vertebrate biomass appears to have PRECEEDED the arrival of toads, and in an article I wrote for Scales & Tails last year, I indicated that much of the loss could be attributed to habitat change, resulting from invasive grasses and the consequently changed fire regimes, along with feral animals, including toads. If you read Woinarski's book, you would be aware of his concern about the desperate decline in the mammalian fauna in the top end in the last 20 years.

Overall, the fauna in the Territory is under enormous pressure from all sorts of influences. I think it would be naive to suggest that Morelia oenpelliensis is immune from these pressures - it lives in areas which may be difficult to access, and not much is known about it. Just because we have difficulty assessing population densities and changes in said densities, doesn't mean we should assume that all is well. Anecdotal evidence from several respected scientists and respected field observers tells us that all is not well in paradise...

Jamie.

If only the wider herpetological community knew the real state of collection in the NT, past and present. Honestly you would be disgusted.

I agree, there are alot of pressures from any number of issues on fauna across Australia and throughout the world. I have agreed that oenpellis are not immune to these pressures and that other native animals are under significant stress due to changing conditions.

However that is not what i am calling you out on. You said oenpellis appear to be in greatly reduced numbers, their is no strong research or evidence to show that this is the case, if there is i have not seen it and from talking to Indigenous Elders they have told me that it is not the case. I'll admit i mis-read your post and thought you were saying that toads were having a direct affect on their numbers and most of my argument was based on that. So apologies to you on that point and i'll redirect at all others saying that toads are directly affecting them.

 

[Nephrurus]

Mammals in northern Australia are in serious decline. What do Oenpelli pythons eat?

 

[bluewater]

Hey all- I've recently been offered a nothern territory rock python (liasis oenpelliensis)

Haven't seen any aound and just wondered if anyone here kept/bred/knew anything about them..

i know it's off the oenpelli topic, but keeping and breeding australian pythons also uses the name "rock python" for the pilbra olive python

 

[AUSHERP]

i think if a few pairs were collected we could see something like the RSP saga again which IMO would be more beneficial than detrimental

 

[waruikazi]

I feel this is beginning to get silly and both sides of the argument are going to begin clutching at straws. So here is my frst straw.

Neph not all mammals are in decline in Australia. Infact some mammals are in their highest numbers since the 70's. I am of course talking about ferals, such as rats, mice, cats etc etc. Many feral introduced species make perfect dietry replacements for the natives that have been displaced by them.

Mammals in northern Australia are in serious decline. What do Oenpelli pythons eat?

 

[Jordan-Kola]

mmm... I could be wrong but in 1995, wasn't there like... a very small amount of roughscales in captivity... it takes time for any new species to be available to every one in captivity...

anywhom...

 

[AUSHERP]

i don't know what you mean jordan? it would take time but we have to start somewhere. @ waruikaz i think the ferals would be a fine dietary supplement , i think the problem is not in diet but in habitat, we have pushed every animal on earth to live in remote areas, i dont know what the human race expects when all we do is destroy nature.

 

[waruikazi]

Again i'll ask where is the evidence that the escarpment country has been significantly affected by habitat destruction?

North of the escarpment country there is a small cattle farm on the flood plain. To the west there is jabiru and the uranium mine and then to the east is the old Narbalek mine. There is also concern about the possible changed burning regimes. If you ever get the chance to have a look at the escarpment country you'll see how difficult it would be to use the land and how much it is in good condition.

i don't know what you mean jordan? it would take time but we have to start somewhere. @ waruikaz i think the ferals would be a fine dietary supplement , i think the problem is not in diet but in habitat, we have pushed every animal on earth to live in remote areas, i dont know what the human race expects when all we do is destroy nature.

 

[guzzo]

I have flown into Oenpellie on a few occasions during the wet season and am always amazed of the vastness of the land. If you see the escarpment from the air you would soon realize there could be a T REX living in there and no one would ever know. As for food....If there are any flying fox collonies like there are in Jabiru in the area( and I am sure there are )....that food supply alone could sustain hundreds of these pythons.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I'm at a bit of a disadvantage here Gordo - I'm a long way from my reference material and will be till I return home to NSW next week. Be assured I wasn't suggesting you were wrong with the statements you made, just suggesting that the changes we have wrought on the country go very much deeper than our superficial perceptions allow us the see, at least in the short term (which may be a human lifetime).

When I get home I'll have a look and see where I got the info from.

Good discussion though...

Jamie.

 

[waruikazi]

I'm looking forward to it! I do enjoy a good bit of evidence based banter lol.

Ps. Your PM box is full.

 

[iamheretic]

i don't know what you mean jordan? it would take time but we have to start somewhere. @ waruikaz i think the ferals would be a fine dietary supplement , i think the problem is not in diet but in habitat, we have pushed every animal on earth to live in remote areas, i dont know what the human race expects when all we do is destroy nature.

Look this up in wikipedia VHEMT

Good theory, probably never going to happen though.

 

[Dukz13]

 

[greeny1]

the oenpelli python is a sad story and a huge mistate that people now need to realise where we went wrong and move forward, exactly as jordan kola said, the rough scaled pythons were in the same state as the oenpeliis and now they are everywhere in captivity, DECCW need to give someone like wiegel permission to let them capture thee animals from the wild and get them into captivity. really this is a concern to me as far as DECCW go. Kruass's oenpeli's should never have been taken from him, esspecially as he was just getting them to breed.

 

[waruikazi]

What? lol

What is sad about their story?

the oenpelli python is a sad story and a huge mistate that people now need to realise where we went wrong and move forward, exactly as jordan kola said, the rough scaled pythons were in the same state as the oenpeliis and now they are everywhere in captivity, DECCW need to give someone like wiegel permission to let them capture thee animals from the wild and get them into captivity. really this is a concern to me as far as DECCW go. Kruass's oenpeli's should never have been taken from him, esspecially as he was just getting them to breed.

 

[greeny1]

that the posability of them becoming into captivity was lost, do you find it a joyful story do you? I am not saying that they wont ever come into captivty just for now it doesnt seem like it. well legally that is

 

[waruikazi]

Righto i get what ur saying. I actually get more enjoyment out of seeing these animals in the wild than behind glass walls, so the fact that they are not in the pet trade does make me atleast a little happy because it makes the ilegal trade in them just that little bit more diffficult and less lucrative.

that the posability of them becoming into captivity was lost, do you find it a joyful story do you? I am not saying that they wont ever come into captivty just for now it doesnt seem like it. well legally that is