Dangerous dogs

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Yeah i know, According to the owners they got a payment from the council to replace the dog and the council was blaming the ranger who was called out, he was fired.

This is all second hand information, i was told what happened by the dogs former groomer.
 
Might be fined or or have to pay for vet bills depending on how far the person wants to take it
 
if there were other dogs involved they will not put 6 dogs to sleep because of 1 attack and if it is just a little bit of damage then it will be ok and also they can not prove that it was your dog who did the damage only asume it. im sure your dog will be ok in the end of this...what type of dog is it?
 
Thanks, anouc. You've been very helpful. If you have any insight into how we can avoid having our dog declared as dangerous, please let me know.

LOL, I feel like you're being sarcastic. Seriously though it will depend on the circumstances and if your dog was attacked by an offleash dog then your case is looking good. You should treat this like a criminal case and admit to nothing, which would not be wrong given that you don't know for sure whether your dog was the one that inflicted the damage or not.

As far as you know your sufficiently restrained dog and his/her handler were attacked by a dangerous offleash dog with a history of aggression and as a result, your dog escaped and was then attacked by another group of dogs. They will need proof and admissions that your dog was responsible for the bite before they can proceed and it doesn't sound like they will get that. Just make sure your partner does not accept blame unnecessarily
 
I should add that it always helps if there is a human victim, i.e. if your partner felt threatened by the aggressor and that's the reason you're dog got loose then it is a very different scenario to dog vs dog aggression in the eyes of the law. Just something to keep in mind.
 
yes anouc is correct you can claim that your god was standing to protect you ( if the other dog got close enough wen the attack was started) i had this happen with my dog. i had the alsation off her leash at an on leash park and was geting "picked on" by 4 18 yr olds ( i was 14 at the time) and lucey came runing back to me once she saw one of them strike me ( grabed my shirt) and she jumped and took him down gave they guy a scratch across the face a split lip from hitting the ground and a ripped shirt she then stood between me and the other guys who hung around no longer then 3 seconds. there was a off duty cop on his way over and he explaind to me that the dog was in no trouble because it was protecting a person and it backed off once it had the advantage over the guy on the ground. its all about position and wether its on a leash and stuff. but normaly if an off leash dog approches you you and your dog have the right to protect your selves :)
 
The dog was definitely not protecting my partner from another person.

Full story: We have 2 dogs, a 3.5yo mastiff x, and a 10mth old wolfhound x. We take them to the dog parks regularly. While they need supervision because their play is often rougher than some of the smaller dogs, they are not aggressive, and come when called.

There has been a rescue rotti, about 6mths old, coming down to the park for the last 3mths or a bit less (I was over here before this dog arrived, so I don't know them). I'm told he was very scared and defensive-aggressive, hiding under the table, and snapping and snarling at any dog that approached, including my two. The last couple of weeks he has been a bit less nervous, and has been running around instead of only hiding. My two and the rotti have never played or interacted in a friendly way, only aggressively, or indifferent if left alone. The rotti must be between 9-12mths now.

Today, my partner took the dogs down, entered the gate on lead, made the dogs sit (as normal) and turned his back to shut the gate. Before he turned, he noticed that 3 or 4 dogs were coming over to greet ours, although he didn't notice whether the rotti was included in this number. As his back was turned, he heard the mastiff start to growl, then as he was turning to see what was going on, mastiff managed to back out of his collar and *nearly* grab the rotti. The rotti ran, mastiff chased, the other dogs (including our wolfhound - my partner's unsure whether she pulled away or he dropped her lead in trying to grab the mastiff) chased and jumped on the two fighting, and about 10m from the gate, the mastiff grabbed the back of the rotti's head/neck and held on. No shaking or mauling, but no letting go. It took 3 guys giving him the boot 15-30secs before he let go.

The rotti's owner grabbed his dog, noticed blood from his leg (there was NO broken skin where our mastiff had grabbed his neck), yelled blue murder and walked off with the dog. My partner was concentrating on controlling and leashes both our dogs, and couldn't chase him down to grab details etc.

Who's to say what set the mastiff off to react so uncharacteristically. All I can think he is he's been approached quickly and purposefully (whether in greeting or aggression) by the rotti who, previously, has only showed fear and aggression towards him. The fact that my partner was knocked off balance by the dog backing out of his collar makes me wonder whether the other dog was in his face and that's what caused him to back up - he's never been clever enough to back out of a collar before. But that's just my speculation. All I really know it that it's very out-of-character for him, but that he's now under investigation, and the assessment will be based on the incident, not on background information or a behavioural study.

I had both the dogs assessed for training about 6 weeks ago, and told while their obedience was promising and could continue into advnced level, that they wouldn't be able to be trained in property defensiveness or personal protection because they were both wusses and showed almost no prey drive or natural aggression/defensive tendencies, and we should enjoy them as good pets, but good wussy pets. And now he's under investigation.
 
as other dogs were involved i would personally challenge even a one sided investigation

it could have been a bite from any other dog and not yours

also if the other dog has been observed by others acting aggressive etc then i would get statements from all the others that go to the park to support a claim it was and has been aggressive in the past

also the fact your dog grabbed him behind the head says a lot, 'most' dogs if they are fighting try to go for the other dogs throat, its how they kill prey remember, so it wasn't trying to kill the rottie more like showing who is boss

i certainly wouldn't be sitting around waiting for them to declare my 'maybe' innocent dog as vicious
 
Thanks, Jeannine. We're not friends with anyone at this particularly park, as it's not our chosen one, more a convenience. I doubt that the other regulars will be on our side at this point, if the reactions of people after today's fight is anything to go by.

At this stage, we plan to try to be in contact with the other owners to sort out the financial side, prepare a statement that alleviates our dog of as much fault as possible according to the dog aggression laws, and go from there. I'm not aware that there's much else we can do at this stage.
 
the fact that you have had your dogs assessed for obedience recently stands you in good stead, thats assessment may prove useful. perhaps contact an animal behaviourist for their judgement on the matter (to be a behaviourist they must first be a quailified veterinarian so take what they say with a grain of salt)

as anouc said, admit to nothing, from what you have said it sounds as though your mastiff was reacting defensively regarding your partner having his back turned when they were approached by the rotti. as your previous experiences with this rotti have been anything but good (and this being a failing on the rotti's owners by not having the animal trained and socialised adequately) you could argue that your mastiff was assuming the worst (not to anthropomorphise or anything) in the rotti's approach an reacted to control the situation. of course ideally your mastiff would not have reacted, but dogs will almost always react to another dog that does not behave following the prescribed script of doggy language (unoffencive approach with suitable unthreatening body language, greeting, etc.) with your dogs being socialised (lets assume that they are) have they reacted in this way or similarly before to having an unfamiliar dog approach them while they are on the leash. being on the leash, while good for your case because they were restrained/under your control (for arguments sake) can provoke defencive reactions from most dogs as they know they are restrained and therefore cannot utilise the flight reaction if threatened, and therefore jump straight to the fight reaction.

ANOUC - i know you know more about me with this, please jump in here and correct me if i have said something stupid, i am only posting with what i would suggest, but i am no expert!
 
Google "menacing dogs", you will be shocked, p..ss....ed off and disgusted (even if your dog had been tormented, harrassed or provoked in it's own backyard.)

There was a law SNEAKED in lasty July 2009 to cover any incident concerning dogs...it's enough to make any responsible dog owner
"nauseous"
Good Luck Kristy - just fight for your dogs rights
 
Good luck kristy, maybe they wont complain to the council. In our case they did, and the council were on our doorstep that night, as soon as the incident happened I told them I would pay for all the vet bills , but they decided that our dog was dangerous, and the council (whether they are right or wrong I am not debating that) just followed the law.
 
the fact that you have had your dogs assessed for obedience recently stands you in good stead, thats assessment may prove useful. perhaps contact an animal behaviourist for their judgement on the matter (to be a behaviourist they must first be a quailified veterinarian so take what they say with a grain of salt)

as anouc said, admit to nothing, from what you have said it sounds as though your mastiff was reacting defensively regarding your partner having his back turned when they were approached by the rotti. as your previous experiences with this rotti have been anything but good (and this being a failing on the rotti's owners by not having the animal trained and socialised adequately) you could argue that your mastiff was assuming the worst (not to anthropomorphise or anything) in the rotti's approach an reacted to control the situation. of course ideally your mastiff would not have reacted, but dogs will almost always react to another dog that does not behave following the prescribed script of doggy language (unoffencive approach with suitable unthreatening body language, greeting, etc.) with your dogs being socialised (lets assume that they are) have they reacted in this way or similarly before to having an unfamiliar dog approach them while they are on the leash. being on the leash, while good for your case because they were restrained/under your control (for arguments sake) can provoke defencive reactions from most dogs as they know they are restrained and therefore cannot utilise the flight reaction if threatened, and therefore jump straight to the fight reaction.

ANOUC - i know you know more about me with this, please jump in here and correct me if i have said something stupid, i am only posting with what i would suggest, but i am no expert!

Thanks, shoo. I agree with everything you've said, and this is basically how we will be playing this out. I agree that it wasn't ideal for my partner to enter the park with them on lead for the reasons you mentioned, but other owners have the responsibility of controlling their dogs, as well, whether on lead or off lead. The onus is not entirely on me - in fact, while it's ideal if everyone knows not to bring their dogs through the gate on-lead, it's unlikely, so their should be MORE responsibility on those owners with dogs already off-lead who run over and harrass the new-comers.

As Kitmin said, a complaint was filed, so there were council guys on our doorstep last night to check that the dogs couldn't get out, and a regional officer showed up this morning to book an appointment with my partner to give his statement, and also check out the dogs. Luckily, when he was let in the front gate, the dogs didn't even get up from their morning nap, just gave him a few blinks and a yawn. He commented that they looked like good dogs. Which they are.

I'm sorry if anything I said yesterday was over the top or perceived as rude. I was pretty distraught, thinking of the worst possible scenario (my best mate being put down), and overreacting. There really isn't a lot of evidence to suggest that Kaiser viciously attacked the rottweiler for absolutely no reason, and that we are totally responsible. We are certainly prepared to do what we have to do - pay the vet bills (which I doubt will be more than antibiotics and a couple of stitches at the most), not take the dogs to the park anymore, continue their training - but I'm hoping that they won't have to be registered as anything other than our pets.

At the end of the day, there was a fight down the dog park. It happens. And hopefully the council realise this without thinking that every dog that gets into a fight down the park needs to be declared dangerous or menacing. Kaiser shouldn't have reacted, but the other owner should have also had control over his notoriously snappy, aggressive dog, as well. There is no reason for us to believe that Kaiser's reaction was totally unprovoked, and it is entirely unlike him to bite another dog, especially without reason. I will be putting all of this and what happened into a statement, and passing it onto a friend for legal comment before my partner's interview with the regional officer. I'll also be contacting my obedience trainers for some sort of statement, since they assessed both our dogs only weeks ago to determine whether both dogs could start training in property defense and personal protection, to which they said no, because neither dog was naturally driven, defensive, or aggressive enough to take on this kind of training effectively.

My partner will be attempting to make it home early enough to make contact with the rotti's owners over the next couple of days, and being seen to try to resolve the issue by the other regulars down the park. Hopefully, they will see reason, and that, in the context of an off-lead park, sometimes things like this happen.

If anyone has anything else to suggest PLEASE DO! Thanks all for your input so far.
 
Thanks, Morgs. I'm sure we'll sort it out. Beer when I get back?
 
Kristy, what dog park was this at? I still do take my dogs to off-leash parks and would probably prefer to know which park we are talking about so that i can avoid it or at least be fore-warned.

I suppose i am lucky in having a dog park to go to where my dogs and i know the regulars and their pooches, there are a few we know to be wary of but other than that there are few problems.
 
I've given up on the parks. My boy and I wander the paddocks now. I've had one too many off leash dogs come at the both of us and given the breed that he is will be guilty until proven innocent in any situation. We've even had a very aggressive mutt swim across a creek to have a go at him. Good luck Kristy it sucks that you've been put in this situation.
 
my mate has a staffy x pitbull and a bull mastiff x with a 6 foot high fence all away around their backyard, a few months back they got a call saying someone attempted to break in, this lady jumped the fence in return this she was mauled by these two dogs and just left there. the cops arrived walked to the fence and laughed at her for jumping in the yard with these 2 dogs, they called my mates and they went over, they lady was arrested and nothing got made of this incident because of that 6 foot high fence. just a story i thought id share.. paulie
 
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