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Pythoninfinite
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Now Jeff, I thought you were used to being a winner... my spies tell me you sing from the same hymn book as Tony Abbott... and he's a winner par excellence...
Yuri...
Yuri...
The 2010 Australian Herpetological Symposium, Cairns, Oct 1, 2, & 3
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ihaveherps
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You guys dont learn.... again arguing a thinly veiled swipe at the plebs, in order to defend an elitist agenda.... I doubt Allens business sense and decisions are the issue at hand, and poor play on your part for dragging him into this.
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Pythoninfinite
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I think Allen's comments have been a bit more amplified than they need to have been Fay - I don't recall him making a big point of it at the time, it was more of an aside to those who were serious about retaining control over their (often significant) investments. I'm sure he wasn't casting a slur on all herpers at all, just suggesting ways to insulate a serious business from those who may weaken with temptation.
Even in this country, it's not unheard of for employees of zoos and wildlife parks to skive off eggs and babies before they're entered into the system, either for commercial gain or just because they can't resist. But that doesn't mean we're all tarred with the same brush. And don't forget - he wouldn't be selecting from a pool of individuals already known to him, and it's very hard to judge character at a job interview.
Jamie
Even in this country, it's not unheard of for employees of zoos and wildlife parks to skive off eggs and babies before they're entered into the system, either for commercial gain or just because they can't resist. But that doesn't mean we're all tarred with the same brush. And don't forget - he wouldn't be selecting from a pool of individuals already known to him, and it's very hard to judge character at a job interview.
Jamie
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Pythoninfinite
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Oh dear... the sleeping monster awakens... I haven't a clue what you're talking about Simon.
J.
jeffspythons
Not so new Member
Just wondering if I'm an elitist like you Jamie? I just took you for a Bolshevik!
Never cease to be amazed by the proliferation of MBAs and Ethicists who inhabit the ether and are always prepared to analyze the motivation and meaning behind every word of people they wouldn't know if they bumped into in the street. Perhaps I should just accept the Capitalist Pig that lurks inside me? God knows I'd make a fortune out of my interest..................If I lived to 120 and electricity was free.
Wish I was half that smart.
Jees........................Lighten up!
Never cease to be amazed by the proliferation of MBAs and Ethicists who inhabit the ether and are always prepared to analyze the motivation and meaning behind every word of people they wouldn't know if they bumped into in the street. Perhaps I should just accept the Capitalist Pig that lurks inside me? God knows I'd make a fortune out of my interest..................If I lived to 120 and electricity was free.
Wish I was half that smart.
Jees........................Lighten up!
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Pythoninfinite
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There are always a few sitting around the guillotine Jeff, knitting needles clacking joyfully as the blade falls!
I've heard that Capitalist Pig... it's a monster!
Anyway, I and others have dragged this thread WAY off track... we should stick to the original intent, and discuss the Symposium...
J.
I've heard that Capitalist Pig... it's a monster!
Anyway, I and others have dragged this thread WAY off track... we should stick to the original intent, and discuss the Symposium...
J.
Allen_Repashy
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What a strange thing to say. People who are thieves will be thieves no matter what their interest. I think Allen should get out more
You would think so, wouldn't you....
..... I found that the temptation is much greater for those who know what they are looking at. If you don't know how rare, or how much something is worth, you are less likely to think about it..... There are honest people everywhere too..... I have just found it too expensive to sort through the rest to find them UPDATE: ..... I replied to this post before I read the oh so many responses that others already made, so my post is pretty redundant. I just might add that my situation is one that I have so many herps that I can't keep track of them and must delegate a majority of the duties. I must also add that I have even had non herpers working for me that decided to help themselves...... but their lack of knowledge and understanding of the market quickly backfired when the walked into the local Herp shop to try and sell some geckos..... I immediately got a call from the shop owner while they stalled the poor guy long enough for me to walk up behind him while he was holding a box of my adult breeders. Just for fun, I took my Scanner and showed him that they all had chips in them too
... as well as the Police who showed up next.In my Business talk, I said "Don't start a Herp Business unless it is something you would do for fun anyways, but Don't start a Herp Business unless you are ready for it to not be fun" .... this is a prime example of what can make it not fun.
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silverback
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I immediately got a call from the shop owner while they stalled the poor guy long enough for me to walk up behind him while he was holding a box of my adult breeders. Just for fun, I took my Scanner and showed him that they all had chips in them too
hi 'gatekeeper'
, i think they'd be far more concerned about you turning up than the police arriving for those that don't know, allen trains mma.
Ramsayi
Very Well-Known Member
Someone has a problem with handing out personal information along with a cheque to a nameless person who obviously has an interest in reptiles, of which some people can't see a problem, yet the very same people see an inherent problem with hiring someone that keeps reptiles to help look after their collection.What a funny world we live in.
Allen_Repashy
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Well, I am not at all talking about looking after a collection......... I am talking about working in a commercial breeding facility that contains 10,000 reptiles.
Kristy_07
Very Well-Known Member
It's sounds like I missed out on a great event this year... I have just been sitting here wondering what the average age bracket of attendees would have been? I'm not proud of but honest enough to admit that I felt that the price tag of seats at the Symposium surely must have limited some enthusiastic, knowledgeable, and keen younger members of the herpetoculture world, myself included.
Not to rehash on a topic of old, because I know this has already been discussed, but surely this should be a major consideration? How else are those of us trying to "move up" in the herping world/industry if we're unable to meet the more experienced and learn from them?
Not to rehash on a topic of old, because I know this has already been discussed, but surely this should be a major consideration? How else are those of us trying to "move up" in the herping world/industry if we're unable to meet the more experienced and learn from them?
jeffspythons
Not so new Member
All this talk about nameless people: On an Internet Forum???
Only person on this thread easily identifiable is Allen Rapashy ! Nothing to hide there.
Indeed the internet is a funny world, but maybe that's why it's called the "ether". Say whatever you want about any-one you want without ever meeting them and knowing the REAL person and the only one to stop you are the Mods. Mum always told me that if I didn't have something nice to say about people, I should say nothing. That doesn't apply to ALP voters Jamie.
Yes it truly is a funny world
Only person on this thread easily identifiable is Allen Rapashy ! Nothing to hide there.
Indeed the internet is a funny world, but maybe that's why it's called the "ether". Say whatever you want about any-one you want without ever meeting them and knowing the REAL person and the only one to stop you are the Mods. Mum always told me that if I didn't have something nice to say about people, I should say nothing. That doesn't apply to ALP voters Jamie.
Yes it truly is a funny world
Kristy, I understand your sentiments but there are things in this world that are not accessible to everyone for one reason or another, including finances. I missed out on quite a few conferences for that very reason - I couldn't afford the costs involved (not just the registration fee) but it never occurred to me to blame the organisers for making it too expensive. I went to the Third World Herpetology Congress in 1997, the registration fee was a pittance but the trip , etc., cost me 3K. ...... I point is, I didn't have to go.
Oh, Jeff, my name is Michael Cermak
Oh, Jeff, my name is Michael Cermak
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Pythoninfinite
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That's a very obscure post Ramsayi - 'someone,' 'nameless person,' 'some people,' are you commenting on your issue with the perceived obscurity of the Symposium management, and somehow making a very tenuous link to Allen Repashy? The two are in no way connected. Allen was a polite and generous guest and speaker at the Symposium, nothing more, nothing less.
I won't comment on this any more, because the issue that has somehow abraded a few members here is so minor, and deals with a brief comment made by a very experienced and cosmopolitan herp breeder, about some of his management practices, and he has taken the time to explain his reasons. He doesn't have to justify his reasons, and you'll never have to deal with him, so get over it.
Ramsayi, perhaps you do live in a funny world - perhaps you should get out more - maybe to the 2011 Australian Herpetological Symposium (it's almost at your front door next year...)
Jamie.
Kristy_07
Very Well-Known Member
Michael, I don't believe there was any kind of "blame" mentioned or insinuated in my post? The cost of the conference is what it is. But, as a younger member of this hobby, with more limited finances than perhaps some of the "older crowd", it is frustrating to be excluded from the events when it is the younger crowd that would, arguably, benefit the most from it.
Younger member/newbies get flamed constantly for asking questions and not knowing the answers to all the problems (and I don't just mean the threads entitled, "I've just bought a snake, can you tell me what it is and what to feed it?"). But, without mentors to turn to for advice, inevitably, a lot of mistakes can be made. There's also the issue of a lot of face being lost for asking questions on a public forum
I, myself, am finding it difficult to move forward in this hobby without potentially putting my animals at risk because the information available is fairly basic and I haven't had the opportunity to meet or befriend any of the "big boys", who I'm sure many of whom were present at the Symposium. It would be fantastic to have a "mentor" to turn to for support, and great to be able to gather together with others that have the same passion and know more than I do to learn. At some stage, the information has to be passed onto the next lot of younger enthusiasts, but where, and when, and how often does the opportunity to do this present itself?
It would have been nice to this to have been a consideration in this and future Symposiums.
Younger member/newbies get flamed constantly for asking questions and not knowing the answers to all the problems (and I don't just mean the threads entitled, "I've just bought a snake, can you tell me what it is and what to feed it?"). But, without mentors to turn to for advice, inevitably, a lot of mistakes can be made. There's also the issue of a lot of face being lost for asking questions on a public forum
I, myself, am finding it difficult to move forward in this hobby without potentially putting my animals at risk because the information available is fairly basic and I haven't had the opportunity to meet or befriend any of the "big boys", who I'm sure many of whom were present at the Symposium. It would be fantastic to have a "mentor" to turn to for support, and great to be able to gather together with others that have the same passion and know more than I do to learn. At some stage, the information has to be passed onto the next lot of younger enthusiasts, but where, and when, and how often does the opportunity to do this present itself?
It would have been nice to this to have been a consideration in this and future Symposiums.
Kristy, something being expensive (e.g. symposium) is the result of someone putting the price tag on it (e.g. the organisers), so not being happy with the price tag directly translates to the act of the organisers. At least that's how I see it. You weren't the only one who couldn't / didn't attend, if that's any consolation.
Can we put this gripe behind us and look forward? It's becoming almost like the debates about prices.
I am sure when you return to Australia, you will meet plenty of experienced keepers who will be only happy to help you along. Bit hard to do while you're in Vietnam.
It may sound pedantic but my advise to the "young enthusiasts" deprived of information is: - get off the forums, buy / borrow books, read, read and read, join herp clubs & societies and read some more. If it's too hard work, they are not real enthusiasts.
Can we put this gripe behind us and look forward? It's becoming almost like the debates about prices.
I am sure when you return to Australia, you will meet plenty of experienced keepers who will be only happy to help you along. Bit hard to do while you're in Vietnam.
It may sound pedantic but my advise to the "young enthusiasts" deprived of information is: - get off the forums, buy / borrow books, read, read and read, join herp clubs & societies and read some more. If it's too hard work, they are not real enthusiasts.
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Pythoninfinite
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Kristy, thanks for the posts, and the thoughtful comments. I know that the costs were daunting for many potential attendees, and in the light of what we've seen in this country prior to this event, it would amount to a very expensive weekend indeed.
I should make it clear that the comments I make here on APS are very much my personal impressions and opinions. I attended the Symposium as editor of Scales & Tails Magazine, and as such my costs were limited to fares and sundries. But... knowing what I know now, I can say that this would have to be a new benchmark for the industry/hobby in this country, and as long as the primary theme of the event (it will change every year) is of interest to you, it could be regarded as a real investment in your reptile future. The Symposium organisers spared no expense in getting the best speakers, providing an incredible venue, and ensuring that delegates got value for money.
I make the point that the entire weekend in Cairns was a lot more than just a herp talkfest. If you can look at it from the perspective of an entire weekend in an incredible place, in a very special venue, and possibly add a few more days to make it one of the most interesting holidays you could ever have. I've been to heaps of bird and reptile get-togethers in the past decades, but this was the most energised I've ever been.
I'm not sure where you're based when in Australia Kristy, but as long as you budget in advance to attend, you have heaps of time get the best fares into Sydney, and find suitable accomodation. Worth the effort in my opinion...
Michael is spot-on with his comments re: mentoring and learning. Forums are probably the worst place to pick up sound info on reptile husbandry - it's there, but dissolved in a lot of crap, so you need to know what the good stuff is before you can even find it. Books... books... books...
Jamie
I should make it clear that the comments I make here on APS are very much my personal impressions and opinions. I attended the Symposium as editor of Scales & Tails Magazine, and as such my costs were limited to fares and sundries. But... knowing what I know now, I can say that this would have to be a new benchmark for the industry/hobby in this country, and as long as the primary theme of the event (it will change every year) is of interest to you, it could be regarded as a real investment in your reptile future. The Symposium organisers spared no expense in getting the best speakers, providing an incredible venue, and ensuring that delegates got value for money.
I make the point that the entire weekend in Cairns was a lot more than just a herp talkfest. If you can look at it from the perspective of an entire weekend in an incredible place, in a very special venue, and possibly add a few more days to make it one of the most interesting holidays you could ever have. I've been to heaps of bird and reptile get-togethers in the past decades, but this was the most energised I've ever been.
I'm not sure where you're based when in Australia Kristy, but as long as you budget in advance to attend, you have heaps of time get the best fares into Sydney, and find suitable accomodation. Worth the effort in my opinion...
Michael is spot-on with his comments re: mentoring and learning. Forums are probably the worst place to pick up sound info on reptile husbandry - it's there, but dissolved in a lot of crap, so you need to know what the good stuff is before you can even find it. Books... books... books...
Jamie
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Kristy_07
Very Well-Known Member
Thanks for your feedback, Michael and Jamie.
I realise that I am one of the only ones willing to speak up about this, and that I am potentially losing more face than making a valid, public point, which was not my intention.
I have PM'd you both.
Cheers,
Kristy
I realise that I am one of the only ones willing to speak up about this, and that I am potentially losing more face than making a valid, public point, which was not my intention.
I have PM'd you both.
Cheers,
Kristy
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