Can someone please clear this up?

[moosenoose]

haha too right moose, I dont own one atm, but if I saw a nice one, I wouldnt hesitate to buy one, and I definitely would let anyone come and take it off a hunch haha

I'll pop a pic of him up later He's a cute lil' critter!

 

[pepsi111]

The only way they'll take my hybrid is from my cold dead fingers! :lol:

*proud owner of a coastal/jungle mongrel* :lol:

yea same im a proud owner or a coastal x bredli =]

 

[Fireflyshuffle]

Q. Are there laws in qld about feeding live feed to a snake?

 

[zuesowns]

it's advisable to only offer live if required. for example: hatchling that hasn't eaten for 6 months and have resorted to all other means.

it's basically a last resort, it's not illegal but it is not advised.

 

[Waterrat]

It seems that some people are confusing "selective breeding" with hybridising. "Morphing" is nothing else than producing a different looking form to the standard. Morphs are usually product of selective breeding anyway. Albino is considered to be an aberration, which can occur in the wild, However, breeding from a pair of albinos is a different issue. There is also a common confusion what are species and sub-species and how it figures in this law.

Ignorance may work pretty well but the less this issue in plastered over the internet, the better. Look at the situation with jags in NSW. Too much noise on the forums got into the wildlife authorities' ear and an action is being taken.

 

[Green_Buddy]

from what i have seen in other discussions about this, hybrids they talk about are not hybrids between sub species such as coastal x diamond, jungle x bredli etc but crosses between species, carpet x scrubby, gtp x rsp and inter generic hybrids, woma x carpet, spotted x olive etc so people breeding carpet sub species are well within the law i believe. Also the mutations from what i understand are not color related mutations like albino's, jag's, hypo's, hyper's but physical mutations. As said its not clearly defined but not impossible to enforce although i doubt anything would happen unless they were after you for other things like poaching or trading in illegally obtained stock

Not trying to start a war here, but...
How would a Diamond for example cross with a Jungle, Bredli or Imbricata?
It's geographic range would never cross theirs. Maybe holidays?
Is DPS of concern when cross breeding? Diamonds being what they are, cool temperate pythons? Has anyone taken long term affects into consideration?
If your crossing snakes anyway & crossing Morelia's, why is the Carpet x Scrubby off the list? Isn't it also a Morelia? Arn't GTP's also Morelia's?
Or are some ok & others not because of their perceived status in the hobby?
There is so much muddy information out there that trying to get solid facts is nearly impossible.
When you are breeding to get albino's, arn't you breeding in a weak, defective gene?
I was always taught that albinism was a weakness.
As I said, I'm not trying to start a war, I would just like some questions cleared up with actual facts.
Cheers

 

[Waterrat]

Buddy, slightly off the subject but I put my money on it - GTPs, RSPs and possibly scrubbies will find their way out of the Morelia complex (in time).

 

[Green_Buddy]

Thanks Waterrat.
That's the sort of info I am after as I am not even going to pretend that I know anything in regards to the classes other than what they are currently listed at.
Any reason to that? Genuinely curious. If not here then another thread/pm???
Cheers

 

[Jonno from ERD]

Green Pythons and Scrubbies have bounced in and out of Morelia for a while.

It's also important to remember that Morelia bredli and what is currently known as Morelia spilota imbricata are considered full species, both morphometrically and genetically. It won't be long until Morelia spilota imbricata is formally elevated to full species level (Morelia imbricata). The rest of them will continue to be considered Morelia spilota spilota for Diamonds, and Morelia spilota variegata for everything else (Coastals, Murray Darlings, Jungles, Darwins etc).

 

[geckodan]

It seems that some people are confusing "selective breeding" with hybridising. "Morphing" is nothing else than producing a different looking form to the standard. Morphs are usually product of selective breeding anyway. Albino is considered to be an aberration, which can occur in the wild, However, breeding from a pair of albinos is a different issue. There is also a common confusion what are species and sub-species and how it figures in this law.

Ignorance may work pretty well but the less this issue in plastered over the internet, the better. Look at the situation with jags in NSW. Too much noise on the forums got into the wildlife authorities' ear and an action is being taken.

I had an interesting discussion about this with the head of Parks and Wildlife a while back. They have no specific definition of "mutation". I read to him the one in the Oxford dictionary which says something along the line of "a form not present in wild populations". I asked if this definition would suffice and was told yes. I then pointed out that the albino carpet was actually developed from a legally wild caught individual. He replied simply " based on that definition, the albino darwin would not be considered as a mutation as it preexists in the wild and is thus within the legal boundary '. This could only change if Parks and Wildlife adopted their own definition that rendered this definition incorrect in its assumptions (which they have no intention to do). So anything with a documented legal wild origin - public hand-in to a wildlife park, legal collection by damage mitigation personel (e.g. in NT) etc. would be legal by QLD law to both own and breed.

If you wish to be "comfortable" with that then I suggest you find a repeatable documented definition that suits our needs, write it down and ask your local ranger if they could verify ("I just wanted to clear up what was meant by the term so that I didn't do anything wrong") that those words seem to be a reasonable definition of a "mutation" and get them to sign it (and therefore endorse it legally).

 

[Waterrat]

Green Pythons and Scrubbies have bounced in and out of Morelia for a while.

I sent this as a PM to Buddy, but since the topic is on, I post it here:

It's just my opinion. The current trend in taxonomy is taking into account combination of morphology and genetics with total disregard for ecology and behavioural patterns. To me, GTPs are so different that it's not funny; their body shape (bi-laterally flattened), prehensile tail, arboreal mode of life, tail luring, extra long teeth, no variation in base colour, etc.. How can this animal be in the same genus with say a diamond?
RSP shows equally different set of features and look at the head scales and their arrangement on scrubbies.

The Morelia taxonomy is a similar mess to the so called "tree frogs" in the genus Litoria. Many of the species in this complex couldn't climb a tree to save their lives.

Cheers
Michael

 

[pythons73]

So Michael are RSP closer related to GTPs,if not,what species would you class them as...

 

[Jonno from ERD]

They are closer to Green Pythons than any other species. It wouldn't surprise me if Green Pythons were once again elevated to separate genus along with Roughies, although I'm not up to date with just how similar they are.

 

[pythons73]

IMO i think Greens should be in a genus of their own..Thanx Jonno,as the RSP live miles away from Greens,what features would be the same regarding these two species(Greens-Roughies).As there closely related compared to any other species..

 

[Waterrat]

I am not a taxonomist but the way I see it - GTPs have very little in common with other Morelia both morphologically and ecologically and should be in a genus of their own (Chondropython?). RSP differ morphologically quite a bit from GTPs e.g. keeled scales, head shape, but not so much ecologically and just like GTPs, they have little in common with the rest of Morelia. Scrubbies are well outside the Morelia too (morphologically).

 

[moosenoose]

Unfortunately I don't have a better snap. This is from a video still. I should grab some proper pics of him over the weekend, he has some nice yellow coloration going on, as well as a reasonably unbroken stripe along his back

 

[giggle]

Not trying to start a war here, but...
How would a Diamond for example cross with a Jungle, Bredli or Imbricata?
It's geographic range would never cross theirs. Maybe holidays?
Is DPS of concern when cross breeding? Diamonds being what they are, cool temperate pythons? Has anyone taken long term affects into consideration?
If your crossing snakes anyway & crossing Morelia's, why is the Carpet x Scrubby off the list? Isn't it also a Morelia? Arn't GTP's also Morelia's?
Or are some ok & others not because of their perceived status in the hobby?
There is so much muddy information out there that trying to get solid facts is nearly impossible.
When you are breeding to get albino's, arn't you breeding in a weak, defective gene?
I was always taught that albinism was a weakness.
As I said, I'm not trying to start a war, I would just like some questions cleared up with actual facts.
Cheers

Morelia is the genus, not the species.

Morelia Amethistina is the species, scrub python. Morelia Spilota is the species carpet python. Diamonds, coastals, northerns and jungles etc are subspecies.

Morelia Spilota Spilota is the subspecies known as the diamond... morelia spilota mcdowelli is the subspecies known as the coastal carpet...

Therefore scrub pythons are the same genus but are not the same species and come under the same hybrid tag if crossed with morelia spilota.

 

[baxtor]

Unfortunately I don't have a better snap. This is from a video still. I should grab some proper pics of him over the weekend, he has some nice yellow coloration going on, as well as a reasonably unbroken stripe along his back

Hey moose, AK47 here that pics a bit irresponsible isn't it:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[moosenoose]

You could say that :lol:

 

[PimmsPythons]

agreeing with geckodan,jonno and others.while organising the queensland reptile expo ,we had discussions about this subject.they admit it is a grey area but under the hybrid issue they don't want to see the crossing of different species.they said the crossing of subspecies would be impossible to prove.
on the breeding of albinos they said they weren't bothered with the breeding of them because they occur naturally in the wild and they see it as a colour morph more than a severe mutant gene.they said that law was more directed at animals with physical abnomalities like 2 heads,5 legs,no eyes ,etc.
She also said, and i quote "we don't care about people breeding pretty snakes.we have bigger fish to fry." she said their main issues with the keeping if reptiles were exotic animals,neglect,smuggling and taking quantities of animals from the wild. She also said they aren't interested in wasting there time on who has taken one snake/lizard/turtle from the wild for a pet.they are after the bigger people who are catching quantities and selling them for profit.
cheers
simon