DECCW enclosure restrictions

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Hi Rams, no I would not. And I totally agree with you and everyone else that they are stepping over the line with their proposals.
I read between the lines and know exactly what government departments are capable of.

What I missed was the note on page 13 so thanks for pointing it out Code red and sock puppet

Cement - with all due respect, your post is a classic - look at the length of it, and the convolutions you have gone through to come to the conclusion that you have! I don't mean that in any disrespectful way.

So what do you mean PI? and what conclusion are you talking about? All I have done is worked out the current sizes they want, as i missed the point that people were biatching about re needing extra bedrooms etc, and given my opinion on what i am doing for my animals...

I was just pointing out the complications caused by the silly formulaic approach. The keeping of animals can never be boiled down into formulae like that.

J
 
I have some major issues with all those who are now choosing to now bitch and whinge. There are countless threads either bagging the advisory committee or dismissing that this process would have any effect. You were all warned and had a chance to provide feedback on the draft code via the DECCW website. Everyone was advised to either join with a herp society or group to keep in the loop. Even if you couldn't attend meetings, updates were given in newsletters.

The expert group was responsible for the draft proposal that included "recommended cage sizes" a lot better than what we have now. I saw many on here and elsewhere bitching that these were too small and provided that in their feedback to DECCW. Well guess what you have now? A progression towards monster enclosure sizes for monitors and large pythons and turtles as legislated MINIMUMS not recommended sizes anymore.

Whilst i comply myself with my pythons, even with increases, it would certainly now effect what i choose to keep in the future.

Some members of the advisory group who refuse to just sit back and except defeat in this process will be meeting next week to decide on the next plan to approach this. If your really interested in the fight to be able to keep reptiles in your home without being in fear of some nobody with no expertise and no clue telling you how to keep your herps, then stay tuned and get involved and make your voice count.
 
We need to work through the herp societies next year to get the current draft sizes, which are reasonable, fixed as final. The proposal for 5 years' time is crazy. Only my big antaresia enclosure would comply with the formula. My largest display enclosure would be considered unsuitable for its current occupant (Darwin) and the one I kept her in when she was gravid would never pass,yet she is a healthy, active animal in a comfortably sized enclosure which most keepers would consider very generous. Get involved in your herp societies NOW! We MUST stand firm and get publicity for this.
 
We need to work through the herp societies next year to get the current draft sizes, which are reasonable, fixed as final. The proposal for 5 years' time is crazy. Only my big antaresia enclosure would comply with the formula. My largest display enclosure would be considered unsuitable for its current occupant (Darwin) and the one I kept her in when she was gravid would never pass,yet she is a healthy, active animal in a comfortably sized enclosure which most keepers would consider very generous. Get involved in your herp societies NOW! We MUST stand firm and get publicity for this.

"Fixed as final" should not mean enshrined in law. The unanimous opinion of the DECCW selected Advisory Group was that the Code be made up of guidelines, NOT mandated minima. WE had the clear impression at a fairly late stage, that DECCW had taken our advice on board, and that providing information is better than forcing the issue with a sledgehammer.

It wasn't until DECCW absolutely stopped communicating with us,and refused numerous requests from us to meet with them and examine the latest document (which any reasonable person would think appropriate) the group obtained information from our FOI requests to both DECCW and DII that it became apparent that the entire consultation process was a sham, and the outcome, from DII's perspective, was a forgone conclusion. One of the communications between DII and DECCW is very telling - DECCW MUST word the Code to ensure the Code is ENFORCEABLE in law. DII wants a particular outcome, regardless of the advice received by keepers with decades of experience. The process has been driven by ideology, in fact many of the requirements in the Code are structured to satisfy 'public perception'... How many of you experienced keepers on APS consider 'public perception' an important part of your keeping considerations?

This will impact very significantly, not only on private keepers, but on large public collections (yes... Taronga and the ARP won't escape...), but also on very important reptile-related activities, such as the holding of large numbers of elapids for venom collection - these are necessarily compact collections for reasons of good husbandry.
 
and as far as people going underground, how would they sell their critters offspring, if people want to breed theyre still gonna have to be 'on the books'
Not at all. Corn snakes are the biggest bred snake in Aus and are easily moved right under our noses.
 
It won't be an issue for you if you stay in Qld giggle - this is a NSW only issue at the moment.
"At the moment" are the operative words. If these changes are to address welfare then welfare doesn't stop at state boundaries.
i know the starting point of these new regulations was to collate and compare other state regulations. When it is time for Queensland to reconsider theier regulations they will no doubt be influenced by what other states have done.
I think it would be foolish to think that what happens in one state wont eventually effect all states.Whilst the effect may be further away outside NSW this is an issue of national concern for all reptile keepers.
 
It is a concern for all but Queensland took a step forward few years ago and got away with import/export permits, annual returns, checking collections and prosecutions for minor offences because they came to the realization that it was consing the Department too much money and it wasn't producing any tangible or other results. They also dropped the enforcement units, retiring the ex-cops and other useless has beens. I doubt they would want to pick up the enormous administration that the minimum cage sizes, animal welfare, etc., would bring.
There has never been any collaboration / cooperation between the various state / territory wildlife departments in the past and I can see it happening now unless the pressure comes from the Feds.
 
This will impact very significantly, not only on private keepers, but on large public collections (yes... Taronga and the ARP won't escape...), but also on very important reptile-related activities, such as the holding of large numbers of elapids for venom collection - these are necessarily compact collections for reasons of good husbandry.

Don't get me wrong here Jamie, I am against this code coming in to be law, but in the preface on page 1, I quote

" reptiles held under licence for public exhibition, education, conservation or scientific purposes are not subject to this Code."

It is after all called "Animal Welfare Code of Practice, Private Keeping of Reptiles."

They are after the private keeping sector.
 
seriously i swear that the goverment is trying to destroy this hobby :evil:...i mean if this goes ahead all the NSW reptile keepers will be broke :shock:....i really hope this doesnt carry over to vic :?
 
and as far as people going underground, how would they sell their critters offspring, if people want to breed theyre still gonna have to be 'on the books'

Thats the most naive statement ever hahahaha
 
Glad I live in SA there is no way they could enforce any rule like this because of the no need for a permit if you only have 1 protected animal on the basic permit list. So there is no documentation about people who have just 1 unless they have a permit.
 
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