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Great post JoshuaAtherton!
Loved it.
Can't believe some people are so aggressive with their responses, geez, it's just a discussion topic...
Great points from everyone though, it's been a great learning topic. Thank you to all contributors.
I still love the look of the Ball Pythons, nothing will change my mind on that :)


(befor i post i would like to say i dont support the legalization of ALL exotics...some should just be left where they are,and there should be some hard study to what ever they bring in for the pet trade if it ever got legalized..which i highly doubt will happen..well in my life time anyway)

Im guessing JoshuaAtherton's post got removed because he had a good point!......dude there is plenty of people that would agree with you..its just if they decide to voice their opinion or not..and most would not,AS IT IS ILLEGAL..i believe there are just as many people wanting exotics than people not wanting exotics......so there is no point posting about "bringing exotics into Australia",as it will just cause arguments between one another..For now,if you have a real passion for them,try volunteer or get work in a wildlife facility or a Zoo,where u can work with them and people who appreciate them,aswell as Native species...for the people that keep referring this to a "school holiday" and "school kid" topic...good...there should be no reason they cant question.. They are the new generation.. :)..as i still question why some exotics are illegal..there are already exotic amphibians,fish and mammals here in the pet trade,and im sure science can find plenty of reptiles that would not pose a threat if brought into Australia legally as pets..Because,a Jackson Chameleon threatening our grasshopper population or any insect would sound ludacris..hahaha....or you know..a land tortoise threatening our succulents.. ..HA HA
 
I realise they are already here, but if made legal and more easily obtainable then there is a far greater likelyhood that numbers will end up in the wild to cause a problem.
.

Olive pythons, GTP's, stimi's etc are exotic to Victoria. Where are the wild ferral populations from having these snakes legalised? There are heaps of snakes being kept outside of their natural distribution. If the above statement was true then we should be having the same problem with reptiles that we keep that don't belong in our regions. Have any of Australia's snakes set up ferral populations from pet keepers? Surely an Aussie snake should be a much greater risk of being indtroduced? Or do you think it's okay to have the same risk that overseas exotics pose on our eco system as long as they are from the same continent?

All I'm saying is that based on the pythons we are keeping outside thier range, there have been no ferral populations spring up as a result of captive breeding to my knowledge. So why or how is your above statement valid?

Would illegal animals find their way into the wild quicker than leagal animals? I think if someone was feeling the heat of the law they would much sooner release a loved pet than kill it. By why release it if they didn't have to? Honestly who releases the stimi's they breed? Why should exotics on license be any different to a stimi?

Just for the record I'd have exotics if they were legal. But they aren't so I support the current laws.
 
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I have a bit of a question. Firstly, I'd hate to see any exotics come over here, as much as they could be pretty or cool to have, our Native Australian reptiles are still the best in the world. If exotics were legalised over here, i'd be scared that one day, in a fair few years, our reptile scene, breeding and keeping, would be much like the USA. Hybrids, like the Woma with the Ball pythons, and GTP's with Carpets and all the like, im not a fan of that at all, although, they can be pretty. I've heard, and have had people say to me that we're 20 years behind the U.S in the reptile scene, in theory, but it seems to me to be an accurate comment. That's just my opinion.

My question is that;
People can keep exotic birds, such as Macaws and the like; which can easily get many kilometres away if let out. Also exotic fish, which i know they are kept in tanks and all, but there is still ways they can get into the water ways. So, why is it that exotic reptiles are illegal, while other species are not?
 
Bird keeping and fish keeping are much older hobbies than reptile keeping. And they appeal to a larger group of people. On a whole there are a lot of exotic birds thriving in wild of australia and probably fish too. The government is actually cracking down on birds and fish though. We'll except for WA which ironic, since we have some of the most relaxed bird laws in the country and some of the most severe reptile keeping laws...
Unless you are trying to get a mawcaw in then you have some drama's ;) A lot of our native birds that are supposed to be on license here, seem to be sold license holder or not and the licensing isn't really enforced like it is with reptiles.
 
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Why import? There is no need for it really when you can get them here already, meet 1 person that keeps them and they can introduce you to another 10 that keep them and each of them can introduce you to exotic keepers and so on and so on, will these people ever be caught? Highly unlikely unless dobed in, which to me is a very un-Australian thing to do, would you dob in someone cause they keep WA Olives or Oenpelli's? I can't see how anyone with a heart could dob a fellow Aussie in for keeping a species illegally when we know full well what happens to these amazing animals, as for all these people that get on their high horses about those that do, pull your heads in, you don't see me thinking less of 'you' cause you keep Spotteds, Albinos or Hypos (I personally dislike all these snakes), if you want to keep an ugly snake or an illegal snake thats your choice, why do people try and make choices for others all the time? You don't even know these people, let alone know their motives and tastes.
I remember the first time I met an exotic keeper I was so excited, when do you get to touch an exotic python? Go to a zoo and you can see them behind glass but you don't get to touch, feel or experience a close encounter unless of course you get your picture taken with one which n my opinion is usually rushed and involves others holding on to the snake to in a rather kooky looking pose for a picture ;) , as for Australian pythons a majority can easily be found in their natural habitats, providing you know spots to search and how to conduct searches. Maybe we should ban the keeping of natives and only be allowed to keep exotics? Hell no, then those poor saps who don't know how to herp or let alone know what the word means, they would never get the chance to experience our natives close up.
Yes people will always have their opinions and feel the need to share them and please do, but when you start attacking people because they have a fascination for something your not into you just look the fool/idiot and are seriously the type of people I try not to associate with in life as drama tends to surround these type of characters, we all know quite well APS is full of these types of people I myself may have at 1 time went to far with an opinion, its the 1's that live and learn that last in this great hobby of ours those that don't change burn themselves out and sit by themselves and wonder why no-one comes over no more to visit.
Peace..
Bax...

Well said Bax155
 
Why import? There is no need for it really when you can get them here already, meet 1 person that keeps them and they can introduce you to another 10 that keep them and each of them can introduce you to exotic keepers and so on and so on, will these people ever be caught? Highly unlikely unless dobed in, which to me is a very un-Australian thing to do, would you dob in someone cause they keep WA Olives or Oenpelli's? I can't see how anyone with a heart could dob a fellow Aussie in for keeping a species illegally when we know full well what happens to these amazing animals, as for all these people that get on their high horses about those that do, pull your heads in, you don't see me thinking less of 'you' cause you keep Spotteds, Albinos or Hypos (I personally dislike all these snakes), if you want to keep an ugly snake or an illegal snake thats your choice, why do people try and make choices for others all the time? You don't even know these people, let alone know their motives and tastes.
I remember the first time I met an exotic keeper I was so excited, when do you get to touch an exotic python? Go to a zoo and you can see them behind glass but you don't get to touch, feel or experience a close encounter unless of course you get your picture taken with one which n my opinion is usually rushed and involves others holding on to the snake to in a rather kooky looking pose for a picture ;) , as for Australian pythons a majority can easily be found in their natural habitats, providing you know spots to search and how to conduct searches. Maybe we should ban the keeping of natives and only be allowed to keep exotics? Hell no, then those poor saps who don't know how to herp or let alone know what the word means, they would never get the chance to experience our natives close up.
Yes people will always have their opinions and feel the need to share them and please do, but when you start attacking people because they have a fascination for something your not into you just look the fool/idiot and are seriously the type of people I try not to associate with in life as drama tends to surround these type of characters, we all know quite well APS is full of these types of people I myself may have at 1 time went to far with an opinion, its the 1's that live and learn that last in this great hobby of ours those that don't change burn themselves out and sit by themselves and wonder why no-one comes over no more to visit.
Peace..
Bax...


VERY well said... :D
 
Bax...

Thats all people wanna do on here...
they just have a go at other people over nothing.
If you can't beat em' join em.

Nah, jokes.

The rest of us just try not to stoop so low and come down to their level.

read my signature.
 
Never forget that we are dealing with bureaucracies that take longer than the Queen Mary to stop or turn around... They, in turn, are dealing with and operating under legislation which is often decades beyond its use-by date: take the case of the licensing requirements for our own reptiles... in every state there is huge & basically pointless requirement for reptile keepers to list every animal they have, from birth to death, including where it came from, how old it is, etc, etc, etc... The 'Fauna' legislation under which they're kept is largely decades old, and predates the captive breeding revolution which has made the trade and hobby it is today. The cative-bred animals we have today are PETS, not FAUNA - they have no relationship, in any way, to wild reptiles, they can't be released... so why are they of any interest to National Parks at all? Because, by an outdated definition, put in place when most reptiles were wild-caught, that native animals are all FAUNA, and therefore subject to wildlife laws. But it has given the bureaucracies in all states an opportunity for growth - heaps more reptile keepers means more staff, more paper to shuffle, and more money for those departments.

It is the same for both state and federal departments - the feds control exotic legislation, and there are protocols and formulae they follow to determine whether to allow a foreign species into the country. It's almost a 'points system', and it's very unlikely that any species will pass muster for private keepers. I was speaking with the head of Taronga Reptile House last week, and her happened to mention that if Taronga wanted to replace their ageing Gila Monsters with animals from overseas, it would cost about $20,000 for paperwork and take around 2 years from the date of application., and they do their quarantine in-house.

For a species like Ball pythons to be considered in isolation... it won't happen.

Jamie

Interesting that birds have been mentioned, and their relative popularities - in NSW there are approximately 17,000 licenced reptile keepers, but only less than 5,000 birdkeepers. It's pretty much the same proportion for all states which have allowed reptile pets for a decade or more.

Another interesting thing, for snowman - when I was living in WA, I needed an import permit to bring Macaws into WA, but no export permits were needed when we left - weird! This means they have no idea how many you might have at any time - you could just say you sent them interstate if the numbers on your licence didn't match their records. They were also photographed at the airport and the photo sent to DEC for confirmation that it was a B&G or Scarlet Macaw, and not an African Grey (prohibited) or a Sparrow, and confirmation sent back to the airport before they would release the bird...

Jamie
 
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Well I can't say i'm a huge fan of ball pythons they have cool colours etc. but their look doesn't appeal to me but thats a personal choice. Here in WA we are still struggling to advance on our small list that we are allowed to keep so our battle is still with trying to keep native WA snakes. Having said that i will put my name down for a king cobra!
 
leopard geckos,l luv em but if l cant keep em thick tails will just have 2 do.
 
Jamie,
Some interesting facts there. Do you believe for a second that the number of licensed bird keepers reflects the number of birdkeepers that should have a license for the species that they keep? Or that there are more reptile keepers than native bird keepers? (bird species on license)

At least nsw can tell you accurately how many licence holders there are! All our records are in filling cabinets and done manually. Way to keep up with the times WA ;)
 
l keep birds aswell both licenced & unlicened funny thing is that when my natives breed thay dont move & end up going 2 the local bird shop.As 4 the unlicened stuff moves like hot cakes theres just that many ppl that dont have a wildlife licence & l wont sell them a native unless thay do have 1.But there r a fair few natives that arn't on licence like princess parrots,& rainbow lorikeets that sell really well.
 
why are exotic birds allowed but not exotic reptiles, people are like "oh the stuff that was here before they banned exotics was allowed to stay, well i can tell you that corns and boas etc. were here before that, there are some stupid things going on here


back on topic, i really do not mind if we dont have exotics, i would love a chameleon, but thats probably the only thing, im happy with aussie herps, i just think some aussie herps that arent in the trade, should be....

i also agree that, if exotics were legalised, that the government would be able to control them better, a exotics license should be introduced (NOT FOR ZOOS) a license for the public, like normal reptile permits, but stricter, and a quite large fee

ALSO, i agree that most exotics ARE here, i have never been offered one, because i live in a town of 30,000 and we have 3 herp selling petshops, all are legit (one is a bit dodgy healthwise tho)
, to prove my point, 2 days ago i was talking to someone that said he was going to buy an iguana, now i loooked at him with raised eyebrows, and was like w....t...f... , we chatted for a bit, he new that it would need heat, uv etc, but he thought that if he put it in a certain sized enclosure, that it would only grow to the size of the enclosure, the species he wanted apparently grows 2m long......im thinking he is actually talking about a lace monitor or perentie, but he was pretty adamant about some african iguana something or other , now i just left it, because i was told he just gets random ideas in his head and never follows through, but he is one of those sorts of people, that i wouldnt doubt knows people who know people

........

Why import? There is no need for it really when you can get them here already, meet 1 person that keeps them and they can introduce you to another 10 that keep them and each of them can introduce you to exotic keepers and so on and so on, will these people ever be caught? Highly unlikely unless dobed in, which to me is a very un-Australian thing to do, would you dob in someone cause they keep WA Olives or Oenpelli's? I can't see how anyone with a heart could dob a fellow Aussie in for keeping a species illegally when we know full well what happens to these amazing animals, as for all these people that get on their high horses about those that do, pull your heads in, you don't see me thinking less of 'you' cause you keep Spotteds, Albinos or Hypos (I personally dislike all these snakes), if you want to keep an ugly snake or an illegal snake thats your choice, why do people try and make choices for others all the time? You don't even know these people, let alone know their motives and tastes.
I remember the first time I met an exotic keeper I was so excited, when do you get to touch an exotic python? Go to a zoo and you can see them behind glass but you don't get to touch, feel or experience a close encounter unless of course you get your picture taken with one which n my opinion is usually rushed and involves others holding on to the snake to in a rather kooky looking pose for a picture ;) , as for Australian pythons a majority can easily be found in their natural habitats, providing you know spots to search and how to conduct searches. Maybe we should ban the keeping of natives and only be allowed to keep exotics? Hell no, then those poor saps who don't know how to herp or let alone know what the word means, they would never get the chance to experience our natives close up.
Yes people will always have their opinions and feel the need to share them and please do, but when you start attacking people because they have a fascination for something your not into you just look the fool/idiot and are seriously the type of people I try not to associate with in life as drama tends to surround these type of characters, we all know quite well APS is full of these types of people I myself may have at 1 time went to far with an opinion, its the 1's that live and learn that last in this great hobby of ours those that don't change burn themselves out and sit by themselves and wonder why no-one comes over no more to visit.
Peace..
Bax...
100% agreed
 
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i stand by the fact that IF they were to ever be legalized the one and only ball python i would ever want would be an albino just so i could call it Lambert. its the snake used in adam lambert's video clip for 'For Your Entertainment' and it's one of the main reasons i love snakes. i know my friend has a darwin albino x 100% het called adam! but i'm not going to move to the states just so i can own a albino ball python i'm not rich enough.!
 
why do people want all the common species like ball pythons and boas, (i kept both in the UK) i'd be more interested in the rare snakes and lizards, rather than morphs of really common species.
 
chameleons.....endless colour changing fun :p

Not really....they dont change colour to what you put them on or to suit their surroundings..each species has its wonderful colour variation which change due to temperature,mood,health and communication...BUT YES!!..they are a fun and VERY interesting animal to keep,dont let their cute old person appearance fool you tho,hahah they can be rather moody little guys and dislike being handled :)
 
Not really....they dont change colour to what you put them on or to suit their surroundings..each species has its wonderful colour variation which change due to temperature,mood,health and communication...BUT YES!!..they are a fun and VERY interesting animal to keep,dont let their cute old person appearance fool you tho,hahah they can be rather moody little guys and dislike being handled :)
they are awesome.......leave it at that

Not really....they dont change colour to what you put them on or to suit their surroundings
this video proves otherwise... ;)

[video=youtube;KMT1FLzEn9I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMT1FLzEn9I[/video]
 
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