cross breeding

[Waterrat]

Yeah, it's not Liasis stimsoni, Liasis maculosa, and Liasis childreni, it's the Liasis childreni group.

I thought the genus is Antaresia ??? Liasis are water and olive pythons.

 

[dickyknee]

no they would be natural hybrids, intergrades are NOT hybrids.

wow it really seems no one knows that an intergrade is, there is a great stick on the topic, look it up. Intergrades are not hybrids and hybrids can be either man man or naturally occurring (which is when they are called natural hybrids)

Got a link to the sticky , I cant find it ... I'll stand by my comment too

 

[Waterrat]

so what if you own two different snakes and they escape there enclosures and mate... is that natural or man made due to the fact that they would not have met if man did not own them???

Surely, they wouldn't mate before they got married. What if they were both males or two females (even worse!)? One of them could an alcoholic or a smoker ... no, they wouldn't produce any babies.

 

[redlittlejim]

No need to worry at my place, i teach all of my reptiles about protection and keep some in the draw besides there cages, just in case!
No smokers in my house Waterrat, unless my coastal has been hiding them from me!

 

[hornet]

so what if you own two different snakes and they escape there enclosures and mate... is that natural or man made due to the fact that they would not have met if man did not own them???

man made since the cross would have happened in captivity and chances are those animals would not have ever came into contact otherwise

 

[dihsmaj]

I thought the genus is Antaresia ??? Liasis are water and olive pythons.

It's sarcasm.
It's like saying all Australian pythons should be in Morelia.

 

[Waterrat]

no it doesnt. It means an intermediate grade; transitional form, the transition form or intermediate grade between coastals and diamonds are port macs which are also known as intergrades, the name is fitting to the specimens but it seems no one knows the true meaning and people believe that "intergrades" are hybrids

I just looked up the Henderson's Dictionary of Biological Terms and Oxford Dictionary of Zoology and the term intergrade is not even listed. Herper's jargon, that's all. Sorry hornet.

 

[saximus]

Got a link to the sticky , I cant find it ... I'll stand by my comment too

Is this what you were referring to: http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/herp-help-38/faq-intergrade-54862/

 

[hornet]

I just looked up the Henderson's Dictionary of Biological Terms and Oxford Dictionary of Zoology and the term intergrade is not even listed. Herper's jargon, that's all. Sorry hornet.

it may have been adopted by herpers but its definition is clear as day

 

[Sock Puppet]

I thought the genus is Antaresia ??? Liasis are water and olive pythons.

Oddly the DECCW 2011 NSW current species list has stimsons under liasis, however childrens, macs, & pygmys under anteresia.

 

[thecat]

interesting that the stickies both stress that an intergrade is not a hybrid and is basically an in-between-stage of divergence as the subspecies separate due to different environmental factors

but the FAQ says they are the offspring of two separate subspecies.


No wonder us newbies are confused

 

[Waterrat]

Oddly the DECCW 2011 NSW current species list has stimsons under liasis, however childrens, macs, & pygmys under anteresia.

Is R.H. advising the DECCW on classification now?

 

[Syn2554]

'Intergrades'

From what I believe hybrids are done at the species level or higher where "intergrades" are of breedings of seperate sub-species.
so a diamond x bredli would be a hybrid, where a diamond x jungle would be an intergrade.

This is where the port macs come in. They are called Natural Intergrades as they occur Naturally. Where diamond x jungles are man made intergrades.

Thats my take on it.
Burn me if you will...but first please if you do, send me a link to where you found the information to prove me wrong and I will stand corrected.

You're right, just look up the word 'Intergrades.' It specifically mentions 'sub-species' I like this discussion though because cross-bredding might be an interset for me in the future.

 

[Waterrat]

but the FAQ says they are the offspring of two separate subspecies.

That's definitely wrong. It implies that a diamond travels up north and carpet makes his way south to mate and then they back again? What about the progeny left in the middle, they don't mate amongst themselves when they mature? That's really silly.

 

[redlittlejim]

Waterrat, can i bring the popcorn now

That's definitely wrong. It implies that a diamond travels up north and carpet makes his way south to mate and then they back again? What about the progeny left in the middle, they don't mate amongst themselves when they mature? That's really silly.

Yes, but what if the diamond has just had a fight with its dad and so runs away from home up north and mr carpet is there as a friend for her, one thing always leads to another

 

[Waterrat]

Waterrat, can i bring the popcorn now

Can we share? I live down the road.

 

[Syn2554]

no it doesnt. It means an intermediate grade; transitional form, the transition form or intermediate grade between coastals and diamonds are port macs which are also known as intergrades, the name is fitting to the specimens but it seems no one knows the true meaning and people believe that "intergrades" are hybrids

I'm gonna get you banned. Stop being so stubborn! You're not right about everything! Intergrades are sub-species oerlapping, not full species. Hybrids are actually species' overlapping. LOOK IT THE HELL UP!

Waterrat, can i bring the popcorn now



Yes, but what if the diamond has just had a fight with its dad and so runs away from home up north and mr carpet is there as a friend for her, one thing always leads to another

I like you.

 

[thecat]

That's definitely wrong. It implies that a diamond travels up north and carpet makes his way south to mate and then they back again? What about the progeny left in the middle, they don't mate amongst themselves when they mature? That's really silly.

Of course it's silly. I know that and you know that, but it's what is/was written in the FAQ under intergrade, so is it any wonder newbies get confused and the topic pops up time and again?


Edit: Sorry it's not in the FAQ but the glossary of terms

Intergrade: offspring of two different subspecies i.e. Diamond Pythons and Coastal Carpet Pythons (Note: definition is the subject of much debate)

Which is where I looked when I first came across the term on here. I didn't think that looked right so did forum search and found a couple of posts with better explanations

 

[redlittlejim]

I like you.

Who wouldnt!!!!

and there is plenty of popcorn for everyone

 

[hornet]

I'm gonna get you banned. Stop being so stubborn! You're not right about everything! Intergrades are sub-species oerlapping, not full species. Hybrids are actually species' overlapping. LOOK IT THE HELL UP!\

Maybe you need to look it up, intergrades are not subspecies overlapping, that is a common misconception but it not the truth, if 2 subspecies did overlap and reproduce that would be a hybrid. An intergrade by definition is an intermediate form, in this case its resulted as the carpet python has extended its range south, starting off as the jungle up north, as it goes south it transitioned to the coastal carpet, as that traveled south it transitioned into the diamond python, the zones where they made that transition are called the intergrade zones and are not derived from hybrids in any way.

Have a read of this, this gives a great definition of intergrades