Snakehandler, please define competent. Do we see someone freehandling and say they're competent and only deem them incompetent when they get bitten for the first time? A lot of competent snakehandlers (widely respected experts) have been tagged by vens. Freehandling is asking for trouble in my opinion, however it's an individuals choice, but as someone who loves snakes and trys to instill a healthy respect in the people I come across daily who fear or hate them, it would be very dissapointing to see someone bitten in front of a crowd and undo all that through irresponsible behaviour. If people want to free handle fine just do it when your cleaning enclosures ETC
Free Handling
- Thread starter MrFireStorm
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God...this brings back a really bad memory!
I was at the Ettamogah pub with friends (well over 10 years ago now) and we decided to look in the snake house.
We looked at the different vens. and I noticed that one of their tiger snakes had very dry skin and cloudy eyes and it looked dead.
The other two in the enclosure looked "ok".
I went up to the keeper in his office to ask about the snake and ask if it was ok.
Long story short the keeper opened the enclosure and reached in to give the "dead snake" a poke to prove it was ok and he got bitten on the wrist by one curled in the blind corner next to the door.
He refused to let us call 000 and went back to his office.
A little shaken we looked at the rest of the reps. but on the way out we passed his office to notice that he was passed out on the floor and had lost bladder control and his young son trying to revive him and in hysterics.
We called 000 and managed to keep him alive until the ambulance arrived and tried our best to calm his son.
I disgraced myself by vomiting and almost feinting once the Ambo's arrived.
I was at the Ettamogah pub with friends (well over 10 years ago now) and we decided to look in the snake house.
We looked at the different vens. and I noticed that one of their tiger snakes had very dry skin and cloudy eyes and it looked dead.
The other two in the enclosure looked "ok".
I went up to the keeper in his office to ask about the snake and ask if it was ok.
Long story short the keeper opened the enclosure and reached in to give the "dead snake" a poke to prove it was ok and he got bitten on the wrist by one curled in the blind corner next to the door.
He refused to let us call 000 and went back to his office.
A little shaken we looked at the rest of the reps. but on the way out we passed his office to notice that he was passed out on the floor and had lost bladder control and his young son trying to revive him and in hysterics.
We called 000 and managed to keep him alive until the ambulance arrived and tried our best to calm his son.
I disgraced myself by vomiting and almost feinting once the Ambo's arrived.
Free-handling vens in private is a choice many keepers take. If you know your snakes and can read their behaviour (or lack of it) it's often safer than tailing or using a hook. Showing off to mates and bravado public demonstrations are different thing. And of course venomoid demos are just for the lunatics.
longqi
Very Well-Known Member
Everything depends on the situation
Until third party insurance went crazy I had a RBB that was a pussy cat
I used this all up and down the east coast in displays
Here I have a pure white cobra that is calming down beautifully and will be used in about two months I hope
But Cobras are very different to Aussie vens in that they can only strike forward and down +- 10%, and they signal their strike; so they are much more predictable and easy to play with
A coastal taipan etc can virtually tie itself in knots to get you from anywhere
So long as the public is safe and the animal has not been defanged or taped/wired up,and if the handler simply knows his snake very well, I see no problem with it if done correctly
Until third party insurance went crazy I had a RBB that was a pussy cat
I used this all up and down the east coast in displays
Here I have a pure white cobra that is calming down beautifully and will be used in about two months I hope
But Cobras are very different to Aussie vens in that they can only strike forward and down +- 10%, and they signal their strike; so they are much more predictable and easy to play with
A coastal taipan etc can virtually tie itself in knots to get you from anywhere
So long as the public is safe and the animal has not been defanged or taped/wired up,and if the handler simply knows his snake very well, I see no problem with it if done correctly
LiasisKing
Kel Campbell-Gale
i am a 12 year old girl and u personally love free handling venomous snakes tigers,red belly,browns i love them all
and where do you get access to these venemous snakes ? or do you just walk through the bush and play with whatever you find ? not being rude, just curious ?
Snake Catcher Victoria
Almost Legendary
Thanks Longqi, this is sort of what I was trying to say.
If done correctly, it should not be a problem.
If done correctly, it should not be a problem.
waruikazi
Legendary
and where do you get access to these venemous snakes ? or do you just walk through the bush and play with whatever you find ? not being rude, just curious ?
I did when i was younger than her (about 8). Two friends and i went out in the school yard after watching Harry Butler and caught some brown snakes. I was the only one smart enough to not get tagged.
Snake Catcher Victoria
Almost Legendary
Me to Gordo, Harry Butler has a lot to answer for, as does Eric Worrell and even you Barny
waruikazi
Legendary
Me to Gordo, Harry Butler has a lot to answer for, as does Eric Worrell and even you Barny
Lol 20 years apart but both doing the same stupid things! It was another 5 years after that before i picked another one up though.
MrFireStorm
Active Member
Prefer not to post any links to the footage as previously posted this thread is not for naming/shaming or political reporting.
Suffice to say that the footage being referred to was on local television reporting a reptile display. The footage showed persons free-handling tiger snakes and copperheads to the point the snakes were basically resting their heads on the demonstartors shoulder/neck. Views of tigers being cuddled like human babies was also shown and tigers coiled around necks looking back at the handler.
snakehandler
Very Well-Known Member
Competent:
adjective
having the necessary ability, knowledge, or skill to do something successfully : a highly competent surgeon | make sure the firm is competent to carry out the work.
• (of a person) efficient and capable : an infinitely competent mother of three.
• acceptable and satisfactory, though not outstanding : she spoke quite competent French.
• (chiefly of a court or other body) accepted as having legal authority to deal with a particular matter
• Biology & Medicine capable of performing the normal function effectively.
It has nothing to do with bites, but a person who is capable of handling the animal with safety.....a bite is a risk we all take when handling animals, not just reptiles, when you do it for a job, then it is common knowledge that bites happen, it is unfortunate but many people who work with animals eventually get bitten for a variety of reasons.
What you do in the privacy of your own home is up to you, but to display such disregard for safety in public is just being a cowboy, an ego trip, and mostly to set up bragging rights! For the safety of those working with venomous snakes they should not be freehandling, I know for a fact that should a bite occur and an investigation is undertaken, if a person was freehandling then it is highly unlikely for them to be covered by insurance! Today it is not regarded as best practice, especially when there are other safer methods to hold venomous animals without stressing the animals while also increasing the safety to the handler.
adjective
having the necessary ability, knowledge, or skill to do something successfully : a highly competent surgeon | make sure the firm is competent to carry out the work.
• (of a person) efficient and capable : an infinitely competent mother of three.
• acceptable and satisfactory, though not outstanding : she spoke quite competent French.
• (chiefly of a court or other body) accepted as having legal authority to deal with a particular matter
• Biology & Medicine capable of performing the normal function effectively.
It has nothing to do with bites, but a person who is capable of handling the animal with safety.....a bite is a risk we all take when handling animals, not just reptiles, when you do it for a job, then it is common knowledge that bites happen, it is unfortunate but many people who work with animals eventually get bitten for a variety of reasons.
What you do in the privacy of your own home is up to you, but to display such disregard for safety in public is just being a cowboy, an ego trip, and mostly to set up bragging rights! For the safety of those working with venomous snakes they should not be freehandling, I know for a fact that should a bite occur and an investigation is undertaken, if a person was freehandling then it is highly unlikely for them to be covered by insurance! Today it is not regarded as best practice, especially when there are other safer methods to hold venomous animals without stressing the animals while also increasing the safety to the handler.
spotlight
Active Member
yes like most keepers who choose to keep vens i also free handle mine,but i only do it with snakes ive raised from a hatchling because they are easier to read.
but i would never free handle in public its to misleading to the public and as posted before its only for showmen ( (who just want to look like heros and dont give a pinch about the snakes).
its people like that who will destroy it for the rest of us in the future by bringing in harder rules on keeping vens.
i hate walking around my local shopping centre and seeing a child with his/her first pet snake hanging out of his/ her pocket just waiting for someone to panic and have a stroke just imagine what that will do for the future of keeping any snake?
but i would never free handle in public its to misleading to the public and as posted before its only for showmen ( (who just want to look like heros and dont give a pinch about the snakes).
its people like that who will destroy it for the rest of us in the future by bringing in harder rules on keeping vens.
i hate walking around my local shopping centre and seeing a child with his/her first pet snake hanging out of his/ her pocket just waiting for someone to panic and have a stroke just imagine what that will do for the future of keeping any snake?
OK....spanner in the works.
The general consensus here is that free handling vens is a choice we make. Those of us that can do it, do do it for whatever reason, but we should only do it in the privacy of our home.
The major question here is should it be done in public, and the response is 'no' because it sends the wrong message to children that it is OK to play with 'deadly snakes'.
But when you saw steve irwin playing with crocs, mums, dads and kids all know crocs are bloody dangerous and should not be played with. I dont think that steve sent the wrong message that it was OK to play with maneaterss just cause he could do it. No....whoever watched him simply enjoyed hey show and thought that is one activity best left to the experts?
The general consensus here is that free handling vens is a choice we make. Those of us that can do it, do do it for whatever reason, but we should only do it in the privacy of our home.
The major question here is should it be done in public, and the response is 'no' because it sends the wrong message to children that it is OK to play with 'deadly snakes'.
But when you saw steve irwin playing with crocs, mums, dads and kids all know crocs are bloody dangerous and should not be played with. I dont think that steve sent the wrong message that it was OK to play with maneaterss just cause he could do it. No....whoever watched him simply enjoyed hey show and thought that is one activity best left to the experts?
MrFireStorm
Active Member
Fair comment. However:
a. Look at where Steve is now....(R.I.P.)
b. Steve did not have 5 foot tiger snakes looped around his neck with the head looking back at him
waruikazi
Legendary
I'm guessing you don't live in crocodile country if you've never seen/heard of Steve immitations.
Jonno from ERD
Very Well-Known Member
Crocs are far less accessible to the general public. A kid in Melbourne isn't going to stumble across a 4 metre Saltwater Crocodile in his backyard, but he very well may stumble across one of the several species of potentially deadly snakes that occur there.
The other aspect is respect. Handling them in a respectful manner doesn't just prevent people from interacting with them in the wild, it also stops them from lumping them in the same category as mice and Cane Toads. All sorts of benefits can stem from that, such as braking for snakes/lizards on the road, creating (or at least, not destroying) backyard habitat, calling a snake catcher rather than a shovel, not using snailbaits etc. Of course, I've included lizards in the previous statement but they are generally lumped together in the same "yuck" category as snakes as well.
longqi
Very Well-Known Member
Snake handlers have been playing with venomous snakes for thousands of years
Yes there have been accidents
But not very many when you consider that it is only recently that anti venine was created
In Thailand for example there are many many places where you can play with king cobras etc that are fully venomed
BUT they select their snakes VERY carefully
Aussie vens are generally much more 'active' than asian ones so I definitely would not wrap a tiger around my neck unless I knew that snake inside out
But things like copperheads and blacks can tame down beautifully
So long as the dangers are completely understood and accepted by the handler I see no real problem with this
Compare how placid an inland taipan is to a coastal???
One day someone will free handle these in public
But probably never a coastal
I dont know much about tigers except they can hit very fast and were not really attractive like a black
so I never tried to interact with them
The message we give out now as demonstrators should also be about respecting ALL our snakes
If we only teach that pythons should be respected the others are still left in the 'Wheres my shovel' category
Yes it is very possible to try to teach respect without actually touching the snake
But much more easy if the public can quietly interact and start to understand that "the snake does not want to chase them down and kill them"
I cannot count the number of people whose attitude at first was "Only good snake is a dead one"
who changed very quickly to "Oh wow this is amazing"
If vens are handled correctly there is only a risk to the handler
Yes there have been accidents
But not very many when you consider that it is only recently that anti venine was created
In Thailand for example there are many many places where you can play with king cobras etc that are fully venomed
BUT they select their snakes VERY carefully
Aussie vens are generally much more 'active' than asian ones so I definitely would not wrap a tiger around my neck unless I knew that snake inside out
But things like copperheads and blacks can tame down beautifully
So long as the dangers are completely understood and accepted by the handler I see no real problem with this
Compare how placid an inland taipan is to a coastal???
One day someone will free handle these in public
But probably never a coastal
I dont know much about tigers except they can hit very fast and were not really attractive like a black
so I never tried to interact with them
The message we give out now as demonstrators should also be about respecting ALL our snakes
If we only teach that pythons should be respected the others are still left in the 'Wheres my shovel' category
Yes it is very possible to try to teach respect without actually touching the snake
But much more easy if the public can quietly interact and start to understand that "the snake does not want to chase them down and kill them"
I cannot count the number of people whose attitude at first was "Only good snake is a dead one"
who changed very quickly to "Oh wow this is amazing"
If vens are handled correctly there is only a risk to the handler
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