Jonno from ERD
Very Well-Known Member
Tahlia, can you delete that please - I'm typing a reply at the moment. Cheers
close calls with big snakes
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saximus
Almost Legendary
Tahlia thanks for the link.
Jonno I/we appreciate your input as I'm sure this isn't exactly a subject you enjoy reminiscing about
Jonno I/we appreciate your input as I'm sure this isn't exactly a subject you enjoy reminiscing about
Jonno from ERD
Very Well-Known Member
I will reply to individual comments first, and then explain the real situation at the end.
Erik was not drunk. The media tried to sensationalise the story, including taking footage of about 12 months worth of cans ready to be recycled. Of course, they concentrated on the alcohol cans, not the soft drink.
Erik's death was part of the reason for Scrub Pythons being elevated in the permit system...the other one is just common sense. They are an incredibly dangerous snake that are underestimated by a lot of keepers, particularly those that sell them to novices or kids.
If you do a search on APS, you will find my account of what happened, which couldn't be any more true considering I worked with the guy and was holding on to the snake while the police took DNA swabs from it's face.
The biggest piece of advice I can give you is to take everything in the media with a very large grain of salt. At best, what you see in the media is based on a true story. Just like a movie, they will freely embellish parts of the story to make it more interesting...they have one motive, and that's to sell newspapers.
I don't enjoy rehashing the story of what is ultimately the gruesome death of a good friend of mine, but people continue to bring it up and I feel obliged to defend him when he isn't in a position to do so.
I'd love to know who you spoke to. There's an element of truth to that story, in that he had called me and left a voicemail to see if I wanted to come over. I had checked my phone, but was about to go to bed so I didn't call him back.
What actually happened...
Erik was a highly experienced keeper. He owned a reptile zoo in Sweden, and had published and presented multiple articles on the captive husbandry and reproduction of several species, including Burmese Pythons and Red Spitting Cobra's. He had kept all of the large pythons and boa's - Burmese Pythons, Green Anaconda's, Scrub Pythons, African Rock Pythons, Boa Constrictors, Reticulated Pythons etc.
He was employed at Venom Supplies as a curator, where his abilities were amazing. He had tremendous success in the captive reproduction of nearly all of the species we kept, some of which hadn't been bred before in Australia (and haven't been bred since his death...). One of his most outstanding achievements that I witnesses was successfully triple-clutching Inland Taipans, with three clutches of viable eggs in 5 months. I know of only one other person who has done this.
On the weekend that Erik died, we had changed our work schedule around. We generally worked Monday - Saturday, with Sunday being a day off. This particular week, we were taking Saturday off and working the Sunday, as we had important visitors on the Monday. Erik had called me on Friday evening, to see if I would like to come over (as mentioned above). I missed his call, and when I listened to the voicemail message, I was going to bed so didn't call him back. That was the last time I heard from him.
I wasn't working on the Sunday, but my best mate/house mate was. She called me and let me know that Erik had died...he hadn't turned up at work, which was highly unusual as he lived for that place, so they went down and checked. He was dead on the lounge room floor, and the snake was on the opposite side of the room, coiled up. I got to his place pretty soon afterwards, and assisted with a few different things, including restraining the snake while they took DNA swabs from it.
From what we can ascertain, it seems the snake has bitten Erik on the face...he has reached up with both hands to pull it off, and it has wrapped its coils around his arms and pulled them tight into his chest. This was a BIG snake...over 5 metres long, however it could have happened to anyone.
The situation that unfolded was Erik's fault. He should not have had the snake out, but his only mistake was complacency (which he very rarely showed). He was not drunk. There was a shed skin in the enclosure, which seems to be the reason he had it out.
I hope this clears some things up. Erik's death was the biggest waste of ability and knowledge I have ever witnessed, and he is sorely missed.
Attached below is a press release by Peter Mirtschin, the owned of Venom Supplies.
The Death of Erik Attmarsson
We have been advised by the Nuriootpa police (Sgt. Bernadette Zimmermann),
that we will not be furnished with any information from the coroner's report
which means we will not learn the cause of death for some time, if ever.
We would like to correct some issues distributed by the media.
1. Generally pythons do not crush their victims as claimed in the Advertiser
2/05/05. This sensational reporting is highly misleading and unwarranted.
Pythons generally constrict their prey causing asphyxiation. Only in the
case of large pythons and very small prey items do any broken bones occur.
2. Snakes were never located outside Erik's place. There was an empty
aquarium on the veranda at some stage which was awaiting transfer elsewhere.
3. There were only 3 snakes kept by Erik. All were non-venomous. They
were 2 scrub pythons and 1 file snake.
4. As far as I know, snakes were never allowed free range of the house.
5. At times snakes had to be removed from their cages for management
reasons.
6. The incident was not a Venom Supplies Pty Ltd matter. Linking Venom
Supplies Pty Ltd by association is both misleading, mischievous and
unsympathetic to a small business that has spent years developing a good
reputation in a difficult field. At the time, we requested all media to
limit our exposure but it was not observed.
7. Efforts to film parts of our business from adjacent private properties
and from the front of our block were without any concern of the hurtfulness
it could cause in spite of our objection to it. The use of file footage,
photographs and statements linking our business was not authorized and was
without due concern for the hurt or damage it could do to our business.
8. Efforts to taint Erik's character by all Adelaide media was despicable.
Erik was a model employee with incredible knowledge. He was responsible in
all aspects of his work. He was a totally safe worker. He was highly
regarded at work and outside work and as a supervisor. He was
scientifically motivated. What he did in private was exactly that -
private.
9. At least one section of the media illegally broke into his house and
filmed within his house. They moved items around to suit their script. It
was a case of manufactured evidence.
10. It was myself and my wife who discovered the body after he failed to
arrive at work on Sunday. My wife became distraught and required
hospitalization. Our staff have been devastated by the matter and one has
required stress leave and medical supervision. The media did not respect
this and hounded us intensely on Sunday night and Monday.
11. A scrub python was noticed in the room just after the police arrived
and it was immediately placed back in its cage and later transferred to the
National Parks in the afternoon. There was never any threat of snakes loose
in the surrounding area. The Advertiser unnecessarily caused community
alarm in this regard. We had members of the local community ringing us
concerned that there was a large python on the loose.
12. At the point of writing this response, I still am unaware of the
official cause of death. All the media focus has been totally absorbed in
the python as the cause. It may well be the cause but surely waiting for
some official finding would have been prudent. In the absence of an
official finding is no excuse to manufacture a case.
13. The media always claim they have a responsibility to the public to
inform them. I have no problem with that. I believe they also have a
responsibility to be accurate and truthful and in this case it appears
little attempt was made to observe this principle.
14. I hope that there is some national media body that can investigate this
matter and take some action to limit the actions of the media in the future
to ensure they do not repeat such behavior. I also hope the media have a
long hard look at themselves and take some responsible action to achieve
more responsible reporting and behaviour.
Peter Mirtschin
Tanunda
South Australia
Nighthawk said:
Erik was not drunk. The media tried to sensationalise the story, including taking footage of about 12 months worth of cans ready to be recycled. Of course, they concentrated on the alcohol cans, not the soft drink.
Erik's death was part of the reason for Scrub Pythons being elevated in the permit system...the other one is just common sense. They are an incredibly dangerous snake that are underestimated by a lot of keepers, particularly those that sell them to novices or kids.
saximus said:
If you do a search on APS, you will find my account of what happened, which couldn't be any more true considering I worked with the guy and was holding on to the snake while the police took DNA swabs from it's face.
The biggest piece of advice I can give you is to take everything in the media with a very large grain of salt. At best, what you see in the media is based on a true story. Just like a movie, they will freely embellish parts of the story to make it more interesting...they have one motive, and that's to sell newspapers.
I don't enjoy rehashing the story of what is ultimately the gruesome death of a good friend of mine, but people continue to bring it up and I feel obliged to defend him when he isn't in a position to do so.
ingie said:I was told by someone that claimed to know a swedish person working in a venom research centre in SA I think a few years ago and he was handling a large Scrubby or Olive (I can't remember which one it was) while he was on the phone to his family or friends and he said something like "I have to go the snake is getting a bit crazy"... and by then it had a good hold of him and he didn't make it
I'd love to know who you spoke to. There's an element of truth to that story, in that he had called me and left a voicemail to see if I wanted to come over. I had checked my phone, but was about to go to bed so I didn't call him back.
What actually happened...
Erik was a highly experienced keeper. He owned a reptile zoo in Sweden, and had published and presented multiple articles on the captive husbandry and reproduction of several species, including Burmese Pythons and Red Spitting Cobra's. He had kept all of the large pythons and boa's - Burmese Pythons, Green Anaconda's, Scrub Pythons, African Rock Pythons, Boa Constrictors, Reticulated Pythons etc.
He was employed at Venom Supplies as a curator, where his abilities were amazing. He had tremendous success in the captive reproduction of nearly all of the species we kept, some of which hadn't been bred before in Australia (and haven't been bred since his death...). One of his most outstanding achievements that I witnesses was successfully triple-clutching Inland Taipans, with three clutches of viable eggs in 5 months. I know of only one other person who has done this.
On the weekend that Erik died, we had changed our work schedule around. We generally worked Monday - Saturday, with Sunday being a day off. This particular week, we were taking Saturday off and working the Sunday, as we had important visitors on the Monday. Erik had called me on Friday evening, to see if I would like to come over (as mentioned above). I missed his call, and when I listened to the voicemail message, I was going to bed so didn't call him back. That was the last time I heard from him.
I wasn't working on the Sunday, but my best mate/house mate was. She called me and let me know that Erik had died...he hadn't turned up at work, which was highly unusual as he lived for that place, so they went down and checked. He was dead on the lounge room floor, and the snake was on the opposite side of the room, coiled up. I got to his place pretty soon afterwards, and assisted with a few different things, including restraining the snake while they took DNA swabs from it.
From what we can ascertain, it seems the snake has bitten Erik on the face...he has reached up with both hands to pull it off, and it has wrapped its coils around his arms and pulled them tight into his chest. This was a BIG snake...over 5 metres long, however it could have happened to anyone.
The situation that unfolded was Erik's fault. He should not have had the snake out, but his only mistake was complacency (which he very rarely showed). He was not drunk. There was a shed skin in the enclosure, which seems to be the reason he had it out.
I hope this clears some things up. Erik's death was the biggest waste of ability and knowledge I have ever witnessed, and he is sorely missed.
Attached below is a press release by Peter Mirtschin, the owned of Venom Supplies.
The Death of Erik Attmarsson
We have been advised by the Nuriootpa police (Sgt. Bernadette Zimmermann),
that we will not be furnished with any information from the coroner's report
which means we will not learn the cause of death for some time, if ever.
We would like to correct some issues distributed by the media.
1. Generally pythons do not crush their victims as claimed in the Advertiser
2/05/05. This sensational reporting is highly misleading and unwarranted.
Pythons generally constrict their prey causing asphyxiation. Only in the
case of large pythons and very small prey items do any broken bones occur.
2. Snakes were never located outside Erik's place. There was an empty
aquarium on the veranda at some stage which was awaiting transfer elsewhere.
3. There were only 3 snakes kept by Erik. All were non-venomous. They
were 2 scrub pythons and 1 file snake.
4. As far as I know, snakes were never allowed free range of the house.
5. At times snakes had to be removed from their cages for management
reasons.
6. The incident was not a Venom Supplies Pty Ltd matter. Linking Venom
Supplies Pty Ltd by association is both misleading, mischievous and
unsympathetic to a small business that has spent years developing a good
reputation in a difficult field. At the time, we requested all media to
limit our exposure but it was not observed.
7. Efforts to film parts of our business from adjacent private properties
and from the front of our block were without any concern of the hurtfulness
it could cause in spite of our objection to it. The use of file footage,
photographs and statements linking our business was not authorized and was
without due concern for the hurt or damage it could do to our business.
8. Efforts to taint Erik's character by all Adelaide media was despicable.
Erik was a model employee with incredible knowledge. He was responsible in
all aspects of his work. He was a totally safe worker. He was highly
regarded at work and outside work and as a supervisor. He was
scientifically motivated. What he did in private was exactly that -
private.
9. At least one section of the media illegally broke into his house and
filmed within his house. They moved items around to suit their script. It
was a case of manufactured evidence.
10. It was myself and my wife who discovered the body after he failed to
arrive at work on Sunday. My wife became distraught and required
hospitalization. Our staff have been devastated by the matter and one has
required stress leave and medical supervision. The media did not respect
this and hounded us intensely on Sunday night and Monday.
11. A scrub python was noticed in the room just after the police arrived
and it was immediately placed back in its cage and later transferred to the
National Parks in the afternoon. There was never any threat of snakes loose
in the surrounding area. The Advertiser unnecessarily caused community
alarm in this regard. We had members of the local community ringing us
concerned that there was a large python on the loose.
12. At the point of writing this response, I still am unaware of the
official cause of death. All the media focus has been totally absorbed in
the python as the cause. It may well be the cause but surely waiting for
some official finding would have been prudent. In the absence of an
official finding is no excuse to manufacture a case.
13. The media always claim they have a responsibility to the public to
inform them. I have no problem with that. I believe they also have a
responsibility to be accurate and truthful and in this case it appears
little attempt was made to observe this principle.
14. I hope that there is some national media body that can investigate this
matter and take some action to limit the actions of the media in the future
to ensure they do not repeat such behavior. I also hope the media have a
long hard look at themselves and take some responsible action to achieve
more responsible reporting and behaviour.
Peter Mirtschin
Tanunda
South Australia
Last edited:
saximus
Almost Legendary
Wow. Thanks again for sharing Jonno. Sorry for your loss
Snakewoman
Very Well-Known Member
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Thanks for clearing this all up Jonno, it must be very difficult for you to have to confront this again. The media have a lot to answer for, and unfortunately I can't say I'm surprised at what they did. It seems there is no low they won't sink to to get what they want, and everyone else has to suffer for it. I'd heard about your friend before, but didn't know what to think since I didn't have a source other than a few different articles about it and I wasn't going to place much importance on what those bottom feeders had to say. I'm very sorry about your friend
Nighthawk
Very Well-Known Member
I'm sorry for your loss Jonno, I didn't mean to offend, was merely relaying what I had been told which I was taking with a grain of salt as it was considering how rumours tend to balloon in this hobby. I really am truly sorry you had to bring it back up, and that I was one of the people who caused this to happen. He sounded like a very commendable person, and I will be sure to correct any falsifications I hear in the future.
Again, I'm sorry.
Again, I'm sorry.
ingie
Well-Known Member
Hi Jonno - I don't know the man who told me the story - he was at my work and we somehow started talking about snakes which led to me talking about my olive python and he then told me that terribly sad story as a warning that I shouldn't become complacent with her when she reaches full size. He did say he had known Erik and now that I read your account - I remember that he told me something very similar to what you wrote but it has been several months so I forgot the details... Sorry for your loss
BLACKY75
Not so new Member
I think it would be pretty wise to understand what these snakes prey on in the wild, Olives, Coastals and especially Scrub's all prey on pretty large animals. A good size scrubby can easily account for wallabies up around the 60 - 70cm tall mark , compare that to the size of your kids. I am not trying to be a scare monger, but understand your animal and assess the risk. Constrictors of all types have evolved powerful bodies and can inflict serious damage. Whilst they can seem placid etc they are not as benign as we can sometimes assume. My personal experience is that I nearly lost a 15kg bull arab pup to a scrubby in FNQ after being careless, completley my fault both animals recieved minor injuries but the pup was out cold and needed kick starting.
robwilco76
New Member
A fair dinkum 5m scrubby... 3 people to catch this one for both the snake's health, and our safety.
Joemal
Well-Known Member
Damn Blacky what size was the snake to take on a 15 kg dog .
guzzo
Very Well-Known Member
Wow, shocking sad story....Our local paper is so bad for bending the truth to suit itself...but if by telling the true story people who have big snakes listen and just one life is saved then at least some good has come.
Joemal
Well-Known Member
I know that smile i have seen that end of my scrub on quiet a few occasions .I have had mine launch from one end of her cage with her mouth open like in the pic and only just pull up inches from my face .Now that makes you think twice about doing anything in her cage without arming yourself with something .
arcy11
Not so new Member
Hi, speaking of large aggressive snake, back at home when we handle reticulated python and burmese python, we follow a certain rule, "for every 3 feet of snake 1 person should handle" specially with reticulated pythons, any way just wana share with you, =)
this my pet "copper" a 12 foot male burmese python, the last time i weight him, he was 26 kg,
thanks and happy herping
this my pet "copper" a 12 foot male burmese python, the last time i weight him, he was 26 kg,
thanks and happy herping
Dipcdame
Very Well-Known Member
There's a coastal here, not fully grown, who is so scared of being handled, she constricts whatever she can wrap. She grabbed my son's arm and hung on till his hand was going beyond the blue phase! took two of us to get her off, such was her strength!!
If she makes it up to the neck, I wouldn't fancy my chances!!
If she makes it up to the neck, I wouldn't fancy my chances!!
BLACKY75
Not so new Member
Hey Joemal, scrubby was only around the 8 - 9ft mark (not real big for a scrubby). I had removed it from in side a roof cavity the previous afternoon. It took a while so rather than letting it go immediatley I left it in a bag on my verandah, the pup must have gotten curious and tore open the bag, I had 2 other dogs at the time that were used to snakes and couldn't care less. Long story short, snake gets out , not happy with pup and gave it a hiding. Scrubs of that size are commmon in Port douglas, but got the occasional fella up around the 14 to 18 ft mark. I was definately more careful from then on. On a brighter note the pup took its first pig 6 weeks later in the forest next to the daintree river..............tough little prick
robwilco76
New Member
A big buck agile wallaby, on the front lawn of a friends place haha
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