Gay Discrimination

[Crystal..Discus]

So constant, relentless, demoralising ridicule is "no key, major, or harmful" to a child and it has no possibility that it would stunt their social developement? I love the patronisation, too. Things are lost in translation over the internet, using caps to highlight a point can be useful, if it is done in a way that isn't rude.

Fine, I'll use a quote from a study released in the states, just to make sure "nothing gets lost in translation."

"Our findings challenge received notions about the importance of children having both one female and one male parent. In this sample, regardless of whether they had one mother and one father, two mothers, or two fathers, children were thriving. Our findings are also at odds with the notion that only heterosexual adults make capable parents and that lesbian and gay parents are somehow ineffective or harmful. Inasmuch as there were no significant associations between parental sexual orientation and child adjustment, our results are consistent with notions that two parents of the same gender can be capable parents and that parental sexual orientation is not related to parenting skill or child adjustment. [...] From a policy perspective, our results provide no justification for denying lesbian and gay adults from adopting children. Indeed, barring adoptions to prospective lesbian and gay parents seems likely to produce a number of undesirable outcomes.[...] In jurisdictions that bar same-sex couples or lesbian and gay individuals from adopting, fewer children were adopted from foster care. Thus, it appears that more children could potentially benefit from having permanent homes with capable parents if lesbian and gay adults were allowed to adopt in the U.S. and elsewhere."

And do tell, where will this "relentless, demoralising ridicule" come from? How is it any different from children who are already unabatedly teased for the smallest insignificant thing? For being fat? For wearing glasses? For being a redhead? For being too short, for having big feet, for being a different race, for being different?

You have no valid argument, because otherwise we should just start banning people from having children that look different, that are different, simply because their children might get teased?

 

[kawasakirider]

I am listening to you, i think your opinions are valid and i appreciate them (and i think everyone else in this thread does too). For a 19yo aussie i think you are a pretty open minded chap.

With that said i think your opinions are showing that you still hold some unfounded views that i don't agree with and research doesn't agree with. That is what i have been saying.

Anyway, i'll again adress yourr point that childrne living with same sex parents may grow up confused.

I know alot of people who have grown up with straight parents. When puberty hit they were still confused, some experimented with same sex relationships and some didn't. Ergo, being confused is normal. And experimenting, although you may find it a bit repulsive, is not a bad thing and can be a lot of fun!

I missed this, sorry. Cheers mate, I appreciate that. As for experimenting, hahaha... I think it's every straight males dream to go to bed with two chicks, so I have no objections to experimentation. What guys or girls do in their own time is up to them.

 

[Mudimans]

I believe that nature AND nurture both play a part in how any animal grows up.

I totally agree with this comment-but don't see how nurture can affect a persons sexual preference. You just can't help what attracts you! You're born with that preference and although people may fight it or try and hide it-it's a basic instinct you just can't change!
(Sorry, don't know how to multi quote)

 

[KaotikJezta]

I know some kids don't need a reason to be *******s.. But if they find a reason, the bullying can be relentless and focussed on the same person, which could have a whole range of consequences. The child could end up resenting the parents or anything.

I have to partially agree with this, I was in a relationship with a woman for the formative years of my oldest sons life and I only found out recently what his emotions and feelings were back then. He is 27 now, and straight with 2 kids. He told me he had to suffer constant beratement at school, and he went to a supposedly very open community school in Birchgrove, he felt weird and like he wasn't the same as the other kids, he got teased and bullied until he fought back and he also never really accepted our relationship. He admitted he still does harbour resentment towards me for putting him through that. Having said that, the woman I was with was a nasty cow, she was jealous of him being my biological son and used to chuck a mental if we showed to much parent child affection. But the thing he hated the most was not being accepted by his peers.

 

[kawasakirider]

And do tell, where will this "relentless, demoralising ridicule" come from? How is it any different from children who are already unabatedly teased for the smallest insignificant thing? For being fat? For wearing glasses? For being a redhead? For being too short, for having big feet, for being a different race, for being different?

You have no valid argument.

The ridicule is no different at all, however, parents can't help if their kids are ugly, short or a ginger ninja, so it's the luck of the draw. Obesity can be overcome with exercise and proper eating, I see no reason (beyond underlying medical factors) for kids to be obese and I find it disgusting that parents let their kids get that way. Forget the social stigmas associated with being "fat", think of the health problems that arise, artherosclerosis, liver disease, kidney disease, diabetes, stroke etc. The point is, parents of ugly children didn't make them ugly intentionally. Gay parents rais their childred in a loving, caring home, albeit one set up for ridicule and scrutiny.

My "argument" is built upon speculation. I have nothing to prove or disprove it, and I never said I had. The fact that you won't even consider it makes it hard for me to even continue typing to you.

 

[Elapidae1]

The problem is that WHEN we prove you very worng and all of our children go up just fine, no better or worse than the rest. You wount be so special any more.

The world is changing GET ON BOARD, OR GET OFF,,,,,

For your kids sake I'm more than happy to be proven wrong. This remark just confirms my beliefs that your doing it for the wrong reasons, in you own words "when we prove you very wrong" Fine, remember though that if you do succeed it still doen't justify the reasons for doing it in the first place

 

[kawasakirider]

Crystal..discus:

"Our findings challenge received notions about the importance of children having both one female and one male parent. In this sample, regardless of whether they had one mother and one father, two mothers, or two fathers, children were thriving. Our findings are also at odds with the notion that only heterosexual adults make capable parents and that lesbian and gay parents are somehow ineffective or harmful. Inasmuch as there were no significant associations between parental sexual orientation and child adjustment, our results are consistent with notions that two parents of the same gender can be capable parents and that parental sexual orientation is not related to parenting skill or child adjustment. [...] From a policy perspective, our results provide no justification for denying lesbian and gay adults from adopting children. Indeed, barring adoptions to prospective lesbian and gay parents seems likely to produce a number of undesirable outcomes.[...] In jurisdictions that bar same-sex couples or lesbian and gay individuals from adopting, fewer children were adopted from foster care. Thus, it appears that more children could potentially benefit from having permanent homes with capable parents if lesbian and gay adults were allowed to adopt in the U.S. and elsewhere."

I never said anywhere that homosexuals would make bad parents. I said it could lead to confusion of the child and more than likely, a childhood/teenage years full of torment, which could pose significant issues later in life.

Also, how many scientists were advocates for ciggarettes? If the pay cheque is high enough, people can be manipulated to say anything.

 

[Crystal..Discus]

My "argument" is built upon speculation. I have nothing to prove or disprove it, and I never said I had. The fact that you won't even consider it makes it hard for me to even continue typing to you.

Your "argument" is built upon an uninformed opinion that you refuse to expand with research either for or against - it's not speculation. You're acting on the belief that children don't belong with same sex couples (because they're "impressionable"), when the unbiased majority of the scientific world says you're wrong. There are a plethora of studies that have followed children of gay couples well into adult hood, and watched them become well adjusted, happy individuals who understand the need for tolerance and understanding (and these date back to the 50's.) There is no difference psychological or mentally from children raised in same sex households than there were raised by heterosexuals.

I'm done with you and your pseudo-intellectual ideals. I've seen better arguments from Born-Again Christians.

The new study by two University of Southern California sociologists says children with lesbian or gay parents show more empathy for social diversity, are less confined by gender stereotypes, and are probably more likely to explore homosexual activity themselves. Writing in recent issue of the American Sociological Review, the authors say that the emotional health of the two sets of children is essentially the same.

 

[waruikazi]

I've seen better arguments from Born-Again Christians.

That's a bit harsh! lol

 

[kawasakirider]

Your "argument" is built upon an uninformed opinion that you refuse to expand with research either for or against - it's not speculation. You're acting on the belief that children don't belong with same sex couples (because they're "impressionable"), when the unbiased majority of the scientific world says you're wrong. There are a plethora of studies that have followed children of gay couples well into adult hood, and watched them become well adjusted, happy individuals who understand the need for tolerance and understanding (and these date back to the 50's.)

I'm done with you and your pseudo-intellectual ideals. I've seen better arguments from Born-Again Christians.

I'm an athiest . My intellect is not of the pseudo variety, it's very real. You just like throwing "plethora's of research" into an argument because you can't construct a decent one yourself.

Speculation:

a. Contemplation or consideration of a subject; meditation.
b. A conclusion, opinion, or theory reached by conjecture.
c. Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.

I think given the fact that I admit to not being able to prove anything one way or another, that calling my posts in this thread, my "speculation" is adequate.

 

[nathancl]

You're a gay male interracting with females... I think the point is somewhat negligable. I mean that in the non rudest way possible.

Gillsy do you even have a female friend with the exception of claire?

 

[kawasakirider]

Gillsy do you even have a female friend with the exception of claire?

I can't find the post, but the guy was talking about having an important role in his nieces lives, which is awesome... But I don't see how a gay person of the OPPOSITE sex could influence a child one way or another.

You either have a non flamboyant gay man, who a girl would look up to as the sort of guy she'd aspire to be with one day OR a flamboyant type who would be right at home painting nails and doing girly activities, which would reinforce the young girls "girliness" lol.

 

[Crystal..Discus]

I'm an athiest . My intellect is not of the pseudo variety, it's very real. You just like throwing "plethora's of research" into an argument because you can't construct a decent one yourself.

I think given the fact that I admit to not being able to prove anything one way or another, that calling my posts in this thread, my "speculation" is adequate.

I made no reference to you being any religious denomination, and your "speculation" is an opinion - an opinion that's well behind anything resembling "intellectual."

You want studies? Fine. All these institutions have released studies pertaining to LGBT parents.
American Academy of Pediatrics,
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry,
American Psychological Association
American Psychoanalytic Association
National Association of Social Workers
Child Welfare League of America
North American Council on Adoptable Children
Canadian Psychological Association.
The data is consistent with my - for lack of a better term at the moment - thesis. Your "speculation" is an opinion based on nothing other than your own prejudice.

 

[waruikazi]

I can't find the post, but the guy was talking about having an important role in his nieces lives, which is awesome... But I don't see how a gay person of the OPPOSITE sex could influence a child one way or another.

You either have a non flamboyant gay man, who a girl would look up to as the sort of guy she'd aspire to be with one day OR a flamboyant type who would be right at home painting nails and doing girly activities, which would reinforce the young girls "girliness" lol.

I grew up with a transgender uncle. I remember when she stopped being Aunty Vanessa and became Uncle Josh. My only question was 'who's Uncle Josh?' Until i saw him again and everything was back to normal. Young kids don't give two hoots as long as they are loved.

 

[kawasakirider]

I made no reference to you being an religious denomination, and your "speculation" is an opinion - an opinion that's well behind anything resembling "intellectual."

.

I know you didn't, you said "I have seen better arguments from a born again christian" I just thought I'd throw in the fun little fact that I am an athiest. Because you even bothered telling me that you didn't make a reference to my religious denomination implies you thought that I didn't read properly.

PERHAPS (those caps are lovely for emphasis ) you should read. I didn't want studies at all. I actually made a smart *** comment about studies being concluded in favour of whoever has the most dosh riding on the outcome

I grew up with a transgender uncle. I remember when she stopped being Aunty Vanessa and became Uncle Josh. My only question was 'who's Uncle Josh?' Until i saw him again and everything was back to normal. Young kids don't give two hoots as long as they are loved.

I can see that mate, but other young kids could take advantage of the oddity of a same sex parenting situation. That's where the resentment toward the parents coming from the child could stem from. Again this is all just a theory.

 

[Australis]

I'm done with you and your pseudo-intellectual ideals. I've seen better arguments from Born-Again Christians.

To be fair sociology/social science is nothing more than pseudo-science.

Anyone with papers on the nature vs nurture, from legitimate science journals?

 

[kawasakirider]

Your "speculation" is an opinion based on nothing other than your own prejudice.

Where have I stated that my argument is anything more than a conjecture? I have never said that my arguments have a Ph.D to back it up.

 

[Crystal..Discus]

I know you didn't, you said "I have seen better arguments from a born again christian" I just thought I'd throw in the fun little fact that I am an athiest. Because you even bothered telling me that you didn't make a reference to my religious denomination implies you thought that I didn't read properly.

PERHAPS (those caps are lovely for emphasis ) you should read. I didn't want studies at all. I actually made a smart *** comment about studies being concluded in favour of whoever has the most dosh riding on the outcome

I can see that mate, but other young kids could take advantage of the oddity of a same sex parenting situation. That's where the resentment toward the parents coming from the child could stem from. Again this is all just a theory.

I did read your posts, I read between the lines as well. The fact you needed to bring up your atheism shows you feel the need to separate yourself from religion in an attempt to validate your opinion (to make sure I understand that any of the major gay-bashing denominations have no impact on your understanding of what happens with children, psychologically that is, in a same-sex parenting couple.)

Also, those studies that you accuse of being "paid off" for are consistent from the very beginning, when the majority was strongly against gays in any social construct.

 

[kawasakirider]

I did read your posts, I read between the lines as well. The fact you needed to bring up your atheism shows you feel the need to separate yourself from religion in an attempt to validate your opinion (to make sure I understand that any of the major gay-bashing denominations have no impact on your understanding of what happens with children, psychologically that is, in a same-sex parenting couple.)

Also, those studies that you accuse of being "paid off" for are consistent from the very beginning, when the majority was strongly against gays in any social construct.

Epic LAWL. I saw "born again christians" and decided to be a smartass. I couldn't care less what you think. If you'd like to know what I think, well.... I think you may just be a:

Teenagers:

Teenagers are the slightly more experienced keepers then Youngins, who have been floating around the site for a few months to a year, accumulating friends and forming attack groups - much like Velociraptors in Jurassic Park (you know the part where they rip that poor guy to pieces? Soughta like that, except they'd be insulting the guy's husbandry skills while they gnawed on his liver.) Often prone to know-it-all-isms, they will answer pointless threads and laugh at your 'stupidity.' 99% of Teenagers, at one point or another, will clash with each other, or any APS member for that matter; but that is merely an APS'er's nature. However, they have been known to use underhanded tactics in order to win, even if it means being banned - because who cares if you get suspended?! YOU WERE RIGHT AND THEY NEED TO KNOW IT!

 

[Australis]

^ lol - love it.
Did you just write that?