A possible loophole in the "illegality of keeping exotics" ruling??

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Wildcall

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Well after having a look at the "ball x carpet thread" I was making the old cogs turn in my head and thought could the Australian reptile hobby see a possible loophole in keeping exotics?

I believe our Aussie snakes are awesome and that we should keep our Aussie pythons pure and also not support the black market by buying exotics, but we all know exotics and JAGs are here.

Do you think it will get to the stage where we see "ball x carpet" hybrids being sold off as JAGs ?

Sorry If this has been done.

I'm genuinely interested and I'm not having a go at JAG owners or breeder you guys own an produce some good looking snakes!

Ps I don't own exotics or know how to breed pythons yet lol
 
I really hope we dont go down that pathway

we can breed lovely looking snakes with what we have

I am so concerned even with the exotics we have here now....illegally

We have lovely snakes here and the snake keeping hobby is designed to protect the wild populations and with what we have we should be able to selectively breed to some lovely outcomes.....
 
well, it would kind of be REALLY obvious, as ball pythons have a VERY distinctive body shape and would be exposed as soon as anyone with any wide snake experience showed up.
I for one, am totally against exotics, sure, they are pretty, in some cases beautiful, but that is beside the point.
there are very real and good reasons why exotics are banned, and if you don't understand why, then you are a foolish person, we all know some keep them, some people here even know people that do, those who know and don't say, are well, I'm sure your own mind can make up the words I'd wish to express if it wouldn't have my post deleted or me smacked and placed in the naughty corner.

these animals place our natives in extreme danger by being here, no matter HOW good a keeper you may be, no matter how vigilant, at least a few of your snakes will escape their enclosures at some point, some will even reach the wild, and then the trouble begins.

we have disease for a start, cross breeding and contamination for a second, as well as supporting people who will have no qualms at all in stuffing animals in very small spaces and transport them across the world in extremely inhumane and dangerous manners.
and because the trade is so lucrative, it'll only get worse as more people allow it to happen.

don't do it and don't allow it, or you are as bad as the people who do.
thousands of animal die every day in this trade, more die as they are caught (entire collections are put down when an exotic is found because the risk is simply too great)
 
thousands of animal die every day in this trade, more die as they are caught (entire collections are put down when an exotic is found because the risk is simply too great)

This could simply be solved by having more uniform laws and more stringent transport requirements, as well as the most stringent quarantine measures in place. Of course, this doesn't really address the feral potential of (some) exotics. Cornsnakes would be one example of a species that could easily adapt to most of Australia's eastern coastline. Unfortunately even the most stringent of quarantine and transport protocols would never be able to address the feral potential and it is this particular issue that I believe is responsible for the continuation of the prohibition or the innate desire of our governments to remove almost all exotic animals. It now appears they are going after the exotic fish. Next it'll be birds, and then mammals.

But we can't forget, humans are also exotic, but we can at least manage and control our impact on ecosystems. With wild animals it gets a whole lot more difficult if not virtually impossible.
 
Do you think there are people breeding extotic x natives in Australia?

And

Do u think it would ever get to a stage where people are cross breeding (let's say balls and carpets) and the amount of exotic hybrids is so well known that DERM would just say "you know what ... There out there. There is nothing. We can do about it. You can own any reptile you want"

Ofcourse in my mind an guessing 99.99 % of reptile hobbyists around Australia would think this would be a tragedy.
 
well, it would kind of be REALLY obvious, as ball pythons have a VERY distinctive body shape and would be exposed as soon as anyone with any wide snake experience showed up.
I for one, am totally against exotics, sure, they are pretty, in some cases beautiful, but that is beside the point.
there are very real and good reasons why exotics are banned, and if you don't understand why, then you are a foolish person, we all know some keep them, some people here even know people that do, those who know and don't say, are well, I'm sure your own mind can make up the words I'd wish to express if it wouldn't have my post deleted or me smacked and placed in the naughty corner.

these animals place our natives in extreme danger by being here, no matter HOW good a keeper you may be, no matter how vigilant, at least a few of your snakes will escape their enclosures at some point, some will even reach the wild, and then the trouble begins.

we have disease for a start, cross breeding and contamination for a second, as well as supporting people who will have no qualms at all in stuffing animals in very small spaces and transport them across the world in extremely inhumane and dangerous manners.
and because the trade is so lucrative, it'll only get worse as more people allow it to happen.

don't do it and don't allow it, or you are as bad as the people who do.
thousands of animal die every day in this trade, more die as they are caught (entire collections are put down when an exotic is found because the risk is simply too great)[/QUOT

Recharge:) l agree 100% with what you have said here in your post, its good to see there are people out there that care about animals, whether they are native to Australia or exotic wish there were more people like you around, instead of those who are only in it for one thing to make plenty of money or greed, and don't care one bit what happends to the animals they a trying to smuggle and make a quick buck from.

lf l ever hear of anyone out there in the herp communitty trying to smuggle into Australia, any exotics Reptiles including Ball Pythons to cross breed with our awesome native Carpet Pythons, l will be straight into the phone to the wildlife authorities in what ever state they reside in to report them on the spot.

The same replies to anyone keeping any native or exotic Reptiles without a valid licence or taking and releasing any into or out from the wild, if you do the wrong thing you will one day get caught and either go to jail or cop a hefty fine or both.
 
I really hope we dont go down that pathway

we can breed lovely looking snakes with what we have

I am so concerned even with the exotics we have here now....illegally

We have lovely snakes here and the snake keeping hobby is designed to protect the wild populations and with what we have we should be able to selectively breed to some lovely outcomes.....

Agree. To bad greed and "desire for the out of the ordinary" is so high and common sense is so low!
 
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It could indeed come to that point. But while there are federal codes against exotics, I doubt it's going to get to such a huge problem that governments will be forced into letting everyone keep them. Exotics are still fairly rare. For a laugh, I tried to find out if there were any exotics available and to my surprise there weren't any around. They're a lot rarer than anyone of us here can imagine.
 
Guys, you have an amazing reptile here in Australia, people around the world envy you, (back in the philippines we envy you), in my opinion, don't support the black market, and the aussie reptiles be protected!

Don't let the invasion of exotic species in Florida, USA, happen here in your country! learn from that mistake. Or the invasion of red eared slider turtle in the Philippines.
 
humans are the most exotic, we're the most adaptable and the most destructive, but we also have the ability to make laws and be punished by not following them.

my usual rant is on over population, uncontrolled expansion and destruction of the eco system, but our species has given it's self rights above all others to do what it wants without regard until nature comes back to bite us on our bums, then.. well we shall see.

but all that is aside from the exotic animal trade and control.
They're a lot rarer than anyone of us here can imagine.
it'd be you who'd be surprised I think.
 
Guys, you have an amazing reptile here in Australia, people around the world envy you, (back in the philippines we envy you), in my opinion, don't support the black market, and the aussie reptiles be protected!

Don't let the invasion of exotic species in Florida, USA, happen here in your country! learn from that mistake. Or the invasion of red eared slider turtle in the Philippines.

Arcy11, well said and l could not agree more that here in Australia, we sure have an amazing collection of native Reptiles, so why do we want to put them at risk by importing exotic Reptiles into how country, when we already have a vast range of native Reptiles that we all can keep and breed on Licence here.

lts all because of those minor few who say l want something different or exotic and don't care one bit, about our native Reptiles and want to import exotic diseases into our country Australia.

Like Arcy11 says don't support the black market and help protect our native Australian Reptiles why we can.
 
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This could simply be solved by having more uniform laws and more stringent transport requirements, as well as the most stringent quarantine measures in place. Of course, this doesn't really address the feral potential of (some) exotics. Cornsnakes would be one example of a species that could easily adapt to most of Australia's eastern coastline. Unfortunately even the most stringent of quarantine and transport protocols would never be able to address the feral potential and it is this particular issue that I believe is responsible for the continuation of the prohibition or the innate desire of our governments to remove almost all exotic animals. It now appears they are going after the exotic fish. Next it'll be birds, and then mammals.

But we can't forget, humans are also exotic, but we can at least manage and control our impact on ecosystems. With wild animals it gets a whole lot more difficult if not virtually impossible.

It's not just the feral potential which is an issue; when you think about it, opening even one legal path makes it that much easier for the black market to flourish as well. No matter how many laws you put in place or how much protocol, there's always people willing to flout them. It's bad enough with underground trading in our own reptiles without throwing exotics into the mix as well.
Even only keeping for a few years we've seen how bad it can get for the animal when somebody with minimum experience and research gets a hold of one because they're 'cool' and then doesn't know how to deal with it and doesn't ask because they don't want to be 'done' for keeping it, could you imagine the repercussions if these were exotic animals used to a completely different eco system?
 
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