It's all in the colour

[No-two]

I wouldn't like to work with reptiles. I wouldn't keep chondros if they wern't a bright pretty green, I'm sure others are similar. Just because you like an animal based on its looks doesn't make your interest in reptiles 'shallow', I keep most of my animals fairly basic, it doesn't mean I don't know their natural range, habit, history etc etc.

 

[Waterrat]

I wouldn't like to work with reptiles. I wouldn't keep chondros if they wern't a bright pretty green, I'm sure others are similar. Just because you like an animal based on its looks doesn't make your interest in reptiles 'shallow', I keep most of my animals fairly basic, it doesn't mean I don't know their natural range, habit, history etc etc.

Don't take it personally. I didn't say that pretty colour means limited knowledge.

 

[longqi]

I understand that it is horses for courses when it comes to work
But I chose reptiles as my work many years ago
Those years have been by far the most fulfilling and at times frustrating of my life
In reality there is very little I would change
Even the frustrating times were lessons learnt
The endless satisfaction from making your hobby your life instead of sitting in an office etc etc
is worth more than anything else

 

[Wookie]

There are 3 threads on ball python x this and that, people wanting exotics, jags, etc, etc..

Is the colour of the snake all that people admire?

I like the colour. I like the pattern. I like the shape or the size. I like something different. To me an animal being a hybrid doesn't matter at all so long as it is controlled and not released it harms nothing.

 

[Nathan_T]

While I probably wouldn't buy a jag or cross breed. I do find it odd that there's a huge stink made about jags, but hypo bredli's, b&w jungles and albino carpets are prized so highly. Line breeding is just as unnatural to me as cross breeding, as far as I understand it. I'm perfectly happy with a plain old fashioned bredli, and maybe an olive or a water python when I get a house large enough. Morphs really don't do it for me, most of them actually look pretty repulsive to me (especially albino's)

 

[kawasakirider]

I don't get what the problem is, if these "hybrids" dont come into contact with purebred snakes.

It seems like the herp world is very divided, and behind, when it comes to selective breeding. If it was like this for every animal that was kept, we'd have grey wolves instead of cocker spaniels.

If they are bred just for the different colours, and they are kept seperate from pure lines and never released, what is the issue? Why can't someone be happy owning a colourful snake, and the "purist" be happy with a pure blood line?

You guys on here talk a big game about racism, yet some are advocates of slaughtering cross breeds, it's not the animals fault it was bred this way, so why kill it? If you guys want to be such purists, then why not have a go at people who breed jungles for specific B&W or B&G traits? Obviously they occur naturally, but they are selectively bred to maximise the amount of a certain colour in a clutch.

Same goes with Albinos. If we followed this logic, Albino's would be 20 grand because they were so rare, and designer jungles would be hard to come by, too.

 

[Grogshla]

Different people like different things.
I have friends who go for colour despite some snakes being more aggressive.
Personally I am a beginner so I am choosing a snake with a higher tolerance to being handled.

 

[Owzi]

My thoughts-

Wild type/Locality type - will look like & behave like it's wild cousins.
Selective bred/Morph - will have certain colour traits highlighted & behave like its wild cousins.
Hybrid - man made animal that doesn't occour in nature & has mixed behaviors and adaptations.

My personal opinion is that it seems dissrespectfull to a species, that has evolved and adapted to its enviroment over thousands of years, to destroy all of that by crossing it with something totally different.

 

[Wookie]

While I probably wouldn't buy a jag or cross breed. I do find it odd that there's a huge stink made about jags, but hypo bredli's, b&w jungles and albino carpets are prized so highly. Line breeding is just as unnatural to me as cross breeding

People seem to forget that a lot of the "pure" snakes kept are millionth generation inbred :lol:

 

[Nathan_T]

Those last three are all naturally occuring so cannot in any way be compared to Jags.

Ok, so what you're effectively saying that it is fine to line breed snakes using techniques not normally occuring in nature only if the product of this program could be produced by nature.

So, that brings up the question, are you saying that a jag morph absolutely can not, ever, be produced by nature under any circumstances whatsoever? If the answer is "well, maybe, but there's like a 1 in a trillion shot of it", your argument makes no sense

 

[imported_Varanus]

Interesting thread Michael!

I think us older herpers, many of whom spent alot of their childhoods out in the bush (and travelling across the country visiting different herp hotspots) looking for various species in their natural habitat with a more "hands on" approach to herping perhaps have more appreciation for our local natives than the scenario for many today of seeing a nice hybrid at a local herp show or on the internet and having it arrive the next day (a sort of instant gratification, shopping from home approach). Maybe the interest in the animal and it's relationship with it's environment is not fostered in some as they spend little time in the bush and can purchase everything on line.

 

[Kyro]

The keeping of reptiles has become a pet trade & thats the major difference between now & 20yrs ago. People don't need to go bush to get what they want & since their animals are bred in captivity & don't know any other life they don't need to recreate the wild to keep their animals feeding, shedding & breeding. I understand where your coming from waterrat but I also understand why people don't feel they need all that much knowledge to keep a few reptiles, I guess you could say we have it easy because all the hard work has already been done for us. I should also add that I don't necessarily think thats a good thing but it's just the way it is.

 

[bump73]

EDIT::: Minka is right it just ain't worth commenting on...

 

[Minka]

Another Jag **** fight... isn't that topic getting a little stale?

Can't we all just get along, group hug anyone?

 

[Waterrat]

The keeping of reptiles has become a pet trade & thats the major difference between now & 20yrs ago. People don't need to go bush to get what they want & since their animals are bred in captivity & don't know any other life they don't need to recreate the wild to keep their animals feeding, shedding & breeding. I understand where your coming from waterrat but I also understand why people don't feel they need all that much knowledge to keep a few reptiles, I guess you could say we have it easy because all the hard work has already been done for us. I should also add that I don't necessarily think thats a good thing but it's just the way it is.

Kyro, you're right, keeping & breeding is much easier today than it was 20 - 30 years ago and I see the morphing / crossing as an extension or further development of reptile keeping. What I can't get my head around is that there is evidently less interest in natural history and ecology of reptiles. It is now largely replace by "manipulation" of natural forms and the new generation of reptile keepers are lapping up the qualities that have been artificially induced on natural forms. One could almost call it a virtual herpetology.

EDIT::: Minka is right it just ain't worth commenting on...

Then don't!

 

[D3pro]

Colours? I'm in it for the money :lol:

I think that there will always be keepers who have a major interest in natural history of the reptiles they own. But because the hobby is so easy to get into, anyone can pick up a snake as just a pet.
I bought a goldfish for my son once and knew crap all about it's history (and still don't). All I needed to know was how to prevent it from death. So as the reptile hobby becomes more of a pet trade, you will get more people buying snakes and only care about how to keep it rather then knowing what their keeping.

 

[Waterrat]

I bought a goldfish for my son once and knew crap all about it's history (and still don't).

Natural history of a goldfish? It's a contradiction in terms. :lol:

 

[D3pro]

Natural history of a goldfish? It's a contradiction in terms. :lol:

hahaha, I seriously have no idea about goldfish.

 

[Waterrat]

What really gets to me is that so many people in this hobby have no interest in getting out and seeing these animals (that they claim to have such an interest in) in their natural environment. They would much prefer to keep them in a melamine box in their house, yet have no idea what their natural environment looks like or how they behave in the wild. They only know what they have seen in a shop or read on an internet forum. I believe if you really have a genuine interest in our native reptiles then the ultimate feeling is to get out and appreciate them for yourself, in the wild. Not herping at a pet shop.

Maybe those people with more experience in the field should write and publish about their adventures to inspire more people to get out and see the real thing. I have no doubt that field herping changes perception about the animals.

 

[Wookie]

One could almost call it a virtual herpetology.

I dunno if I can entertain that Michael. I appreciate that they aren't naturally occurring and hence have different requirements and behaviours but I also think that keeping a a jag for instance is much the same as keeping a pure carpet and I don't consider people any less of a keeper for owning them (not saying you do either mate).

Most keepers own snakes as pets and as such, it is relatively unimportant knowing the locality/wild behaviours/environment. It isn't a wild animal so behaviour is irrelevant to them and all they want to know is how to look after it (and reading lots of threads on this forum, also how to breed them :lol. They're becoming mainstream pets which can either be seen as a blessing or a curse to the hobby for reasons we won't go into.