It's all in the colour

[kawasakirider]

still wouldn't like the idea of coming across a scruboa one day!

Lol, it could be the aussie version of the anaconda movie

 

[vampstorso]

For the record Michael,
I just want to say I like how you've handled yourself through this thread, with people attacking your view (which has more of an evidence/biologically based background) with their flawed EMOTIONAL (hence rather irrelevant) arguments.

I bought a "run of the mill" Jungle simply because I liked the snake, and I liked the personality shown in my particular one too, I liked the idea that if I went looking for one in the wild, I'd find one just like him. I find a feeling of strength in that.

In reading your photography thread Michael, I saw you were a zoologist, which to me makes your views come together even more, and like I said, from the biological standpoint; appreciating an animal for what it is, where it came from, and how it came too be. I highly appreciate that.

I think that's where this thread is getting lost in translation...it's not an emotional or money based thread, it's about the actual well being and appreciation for the biology/ecology of it all...

 

[hrafna]

Lol, it could be the aussie version of the anaconda movie

god no! the worst thing about that movie was j-lo and we don't need her out here!

 

[killimike]

Love these threads! Always interesting to see what people think and why.

I won't add my 2c other than to say let's not talk like either side on this issue has exclusive rights to common sense and reason, both sides have made subjective and emotive appeals

 

[Jay84]

Is the colour of the snake all that people admire? If it is, that's pretty sad and demonstrates the shallow interest in reptiles. "colourful pets" - is that all?

I apologise for the negativity in this post but it's almost painful to read "I wont one", whenever a photo of some screwed up hybrid appears on here - like kids in a lolly shop.

Why is it 'sad' that some people like to own or breed reptiles for their colour or pattern etc? Why is it 'sad' that some people just like to have these animals in captivity and not go on herping trips, or study their biology or natural history?

Is it 'sad' that i own 3 dog breeds..... yet i do not know the history of the breed. I do not know the story of how dogs became domesticated.

Why does it matter if some people just want to keep and breed animals purely for colour and pattern?

Why does it matter if people choose to just study reptiles and not keep them?

Why does it matter if some choose to do both, keep them in captivity, and also study their natural history?

 

[eitak]

Waterrat - What do you look for in a snake apart from appearance? Not trying to start just wondering what other aspects interest you?

I always wanted a pet snake and got a spotted as my first, he is soo clam if he slips down the couch I can pull him out and he doesn't even flinch or hiss . . But he isn't all that beautiful . . So as my next snakes I got diamonds because if their size and colour - I think they ate beautiful and wanted something bigger . . My spotted is still my fav just because of his temperament and sentimental value of being my first snake . . So I guess I look for temperament and appearance

 

[kupper]

Why is it 'sad' that some people like to own or breed reptiles for their colour or pattern etc? Why is it 'sad' that some people just like to have these animals in captivity and not go on herping trips, or study their biology or natural history?

Is it 'sad' that i own 3 dog breeds..... yet i do not know the history of the breed. I do not know the story of how dogs became domesticated.

Why does it matter if some people just want to keep and breed animals purely for colour and pattern?

Why does it matter if people choose to just study reptiles and not keep them?

Why does it matter if some choose to do both, keep them in captivity, and also study their natural history?

how are you so active after the weekend you have had ?

 

[Waterrat]

Then don't start them!

This thread was fresh when I start it .... your remark didn't make it any fresher.

Why is it 'sad' that some people like to own or breed reptiles for their colour or pattern etc?

Jay, The sad thing is that SOME / MANY people don't beyond the colour or pattern.

Waterrat - What do you look for in a snake apart from appearance?

Eitak, I only keep and breed one species at the moment but I have kept, bred, displayed .... many before (I am one of those "born earlier"). I look for interesting aspects of different species and if I find (through research) their biology, ecology interesting and keeping / breeding challenging, I go for it. That's what makes me tick. Although it sounds almost impossible, my next target are White-lipped pythons. I know they would do well in outdoor enclosures where I live, and I think they would be fantastic species to work with even though they are savage bastards.

 

[killimike]

...my next target are White-lipped pythons. I know they would do well in outdoor enclosures where I live, and I think they would be fantastic species to work with even though they are savage bastards...

Very cool! Any hints on how you might go about targeting them? That might be half the challenge, and a big part of the enjoyment you get out of your keeping, to keep the thread sorta on the original topic

 

[HILDY]

How would you about getting them, legally that is?

 

[Dannyboi]

Demonstrators permit?

 

[ToadCountry]

Why is it 'sad' that some people like to own or breed reptiles for their colour or pattern etc? Why is it 'sad' that some people just like to have these animals in captivity and not go on herping trips, or study their biology or natural history?

Far out.
My analogy............and please don't tell me I'm talking about mammals, as I am aware of this.
My experience with being around horses all my life tells me that breeding for certain colour traits results in some VERY poorly comformed offspring. But of course, they are a lovely colour !! The knackery is full of purpose-bred horses that are, for one reason or another, going to be killed as they are rejects.

So based on my experience, I am hesitant and a little dismayed to look at a ball x carpet and see what people are going on an on about!

I think what Michael is trying to say - on one level at least - is that there is a fear of losing the point from which we all started.
Go bush, and try to sneak up on a Frilly.....go night herping, and spook yourself out looking through and into trees!

Some people are saying the hobby will be turned on its head in the next ten years.

I am sad to agree. I think we are becoming as "gotta have" as the Yanks.......what of the pure lines?

Pilbara Pythons and others will be run off their feet for wild-caught animals LOL.....

 

[HILDY]

always wondered why they were on the species list (here in nsw anyway)
anyone know why?

 

[D3pro]

Although it sounds almost impossible, my next target are White-lipped pythons. I know they would do well in outdoor enclosures where I live, and I think they would be fantastic species to work with even though they are savage bastards.

They love being up in the mountains don't they? Would be interesting if you can get them legally... not many have been able to breed them in captivity.

 

[Minka]

Why is it 'sad' that some people like to own or breed reptiles for their colour or pattern etc? Why is it 'sad' that some people just like to have these animals in captivity and not go on herping trips, or study their biology or natural history?

Far out.
My analogy............and please don't tell me I'm talking about mammals, as I am aware of this.
My experience with being around horses all my life tells me that breeding for certain colour traits results in some VERY poorly comformed offspring. But of course, they are a lovely colour !! The knackery is full of purpose-bred horses that are, for one reason or another, going to be killed as they are rejects.

So based on my experience, I am hesitant and a little dismayed to look at a ball x carpet and see what people are going on an on about!

I think what Michael is trying to say - on one level at least - is that there is a fear of losing the point from which we all started.
Go bush, and try to sneak up on a Frilly.....go night herping, and spook yourself out looking through and into trees!

Some people are saying the hobby will be turned on its head in the next ten years.

I am sad to agree. I think we are becoming as "gotta have" as the Yanks.......what of the pure lines?

Pilbara Pythons and others will be run off their feet for wild-caught animals LOL.....

I think you'll find that the ability to produce foals with genetic faults can be applied to any horse breed and not just the colour mutations or dilutes, this is obviously intensified in animal's who are line bred.
This variation within a species is true of all natural populations of animals, for the very good reason that it allows plenty of genetic diversity to cope with environmental changes. However, when traits or characteristics becomes particularly desirable, then they can be selected deliberately by mating like with like. Horses are not as prone to genetic defects or diseases as animals with a shorter generation length like cats and dogs, but they do have a few. Also, because of the selection pressure for performance, no horse breeder in their right mind would actively select for a conformational fault, as occurs in certain small animal breeds. Examples are Persian cats which have permanently runny eyes and breathing problems because of the emphasis by breeders on squashing and elevating the nose, then there are the many breeds of dogs with potentially debilitating and life-shortening faults such as hip dysplasia. In one particular breed of dog, the very serious fault of undershot jaw is considered desirable.


The truth is there is room for every flavour in the hobby. I am not going to get into the nitty gritty of why i keep what i keep simply because it is pointless as each to their own right? No one should have to justify why they keep what they do as it is personal choice. Some keepers would know doubt love to get out and field herp regularly but for whatever reason's aren't able to. That doesn't make their desire to own a species in captivity any less worthy than a seasoned field herper who has studied or desired to study the animal's biology and ecology.

 

[longqi]

Water pythons are one of my favourites even though I have none at present
I think there were some located on one of the Torres Straight islands or maybe on Melville
they were the black variety if memory serves me correctly
the Gold phase are simply stunning

 

[Australis]

They love being up in the mountains don't they? Would be interesting if you can get them legally... not many have been able to breed them in captivity.

You sound like your getting confused with Morelia boeleni.

 

[DanN]

Nothing is sad.

People keep/breed reptiles for colour/money/interest in natural history + 156 other sad/great/perverted reasons.

It is the individuals choice. Just because 1 person thinks something is "sad" does not mean others do, or does it mean it ACTUALLY is sad - you just think it is and that is your choice too. You're human beings!

Why not talk about something interesting like White-lipped pythons. Longqi says they are on Melville Island and the Torres Straight Islands - news to me...

 

[longqi]

I might be completely wrong about that but Im fairly sure I heard it somewhere
Something about calling them a new species because they were neither Albertisi or Fuscus but had the white lip look

It may have even been on this site
I put up a photo of me with a whitelip and one of the replies [who seemed to know what he was talking about]
gave exact descriptions etc etc

 

[Waterrat]

Dan, they are on Saibai which is an Australia Territory.