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open minded is seeing the world as 1 grain of sand on fraser island.
its very possible and very reasonable that we dont know anymore than the amount of sand u can attach to the end edge of a maccas straw.
 
Scientists haven't proven anything, that is why it is the theory of evolution, the theory of relativity, the chaos theory etc, they are all theories and can change at any minute and have done several times

No everything in your post is very wrong, that is not the reason it is the theory of evolution.
Evolution has been proven it is indeed a fact.. one i suspect you know very little about if you honestly think "Scientists haven't proven anything".

You have fallen for a common mistake, the use of the word theory in science is not the same as in everyday usage, that is it does not imply a lack of evidence or some kinda of guess lacking proof.

Do you show the same level of contempt for the theory of gravity also?

No offense intended etc. etc.. smiley smiley
 
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No everything in your post is very wrong, that is not the reason it is the theory of evolution.
Evolution has been proven it is indeed a fact.. one i suspect you know very little about if you honestly think "Scientists haven't proven anything".

You have fallen for a common mistake, the use of the word theory in science is not the same as in everyday usage, that is it does not imply a lack of evidence or some kinda of guess lacking proof.

Do you show the same level of contempt for the theory of gravity also?

No offense intended etc. etc.. smiley smiley
Scientific theory gets changed and revised all the time, that is why it is called theory. They can say with certainty that some things are 100% like gravity for example, but they can't actually prove why a lot of things are the way they are, hence theory. For example, a lot of Einsteins theories are in the process of reevaluation at the moment, that is the beauty of science, nothing is set in stone and there is always something new to discover.
 
The leading Scientists said the human race being able to build things and talk and do everything CAN NOT HAPPEN by just plain evolution. no way no how...thats why we have been in search for the " missing link "
they have thought it was some kind of monkey or ape that we have not found yet but now realise thats crap..
even if their was a magic monkey that we have not found ..we would still be walking around with clubs sleeping in caves..
they said take a place that does not EVER get twisters ...then one day a twisters goes thru the town and distroys everything but at the same time as its smashing everything its building a 100% working 747 jet with all the nuts and bolts and new stickers put on it ready to fly...as in it can not happen...
 
Some of you guys have a pretty skewed idea of open mindedness. To be closed minded, is to be closed to any other options or ideas. To be open minded is to be open to other ideas, options or other points of view, ie, to say there is absolutely no proof of aliens, therefore aliens don't exist, is closed minded because you are not open to other possibilities. To say that there is no scientific proof of aliens but theoretically there is a possibility that aliens could exist, would be open minded.

Another one is theory. Relativity and evolution are both theories, not enough evidence to prove beyond absolute doubt, but physics and gravity are both LAWS, absolutely proven beyond absolute doubt.

Ezekiel86, love the name. Have you read ezekiel?
 
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It can make interesting reading if you read it from the point of view of a "just out of stone age" man trying to describe technology.:)
 
Some of you guys have a pretty skewed idea of open mindedness. To be closed minded, is to be closed to any other options or ideas. To be open minded is to be open to other ideas, options or other points of view, ie, to say there is absolutely no proof of aliens, therefore aliens don't exist, is closed minded because you are not open to other possibilities. To say that there is no scientific proof of aliens but theoretically there is a possibility that aliens could exist, would be open minded.

The point being made (which I am sure you did get) was that many here is suggesting there HAS to be life out there - so the point is - to open your mind to the possibility there is NOT any life out there.
 
Seen few docos on the nazi ufo cover up..they reckon thats where hitler ****ed up...had endless money etc and was working on a weapon to rule the world " A-bomb..then they reckon they found somthing on somewhere along his hunt across the world ..and started bringing out tech weapons that no 1 in the world had seen....started looking for all the E.T stuff and using all his money their and lost the whole war thing..then the USA Gov took his leading science people in the feilds from from hitler ( nazi working because if they didnt familys would of been killed) then took hitlers main science man had he was the one that started up NASA and showed the Yanks how to build rockets etc and bang then yanks are on the moon!
WHERE DID ALL THIS TECH AND HELP COME FROM ?
the only living man that worked with hitler that was one of the founders at NASA said " we had alot of helo from them"
only thing he ever said about it all...Who the Hell where " them ' ?
The other 5 or 6 leading guys in their feild vanished into thin air...never seen or hurd of again..
now the story has been leaked with videos etc that hitler was working on a telaport machine..besides the flying disks
Cant remeber what they called this telaport machine in the doco..I think it was called the "Bell "?

The German scientist that I think you are referring to, who was in charge of the US space program in its early stages was Dr Werner von Braun. He was one of many German scientists who were employed by NASA to help with their space program. Dr von Braun's claim to fame is the Saturn 5 multi stage rocket, which he designed. The Saturn 5 rocket was the only rocket that was big enough to launch a payload large enough to support a journey and landing of 3 astronauts to the moon and back. Dr von Braun was also heavily involved in Germany's WW2 V1 and V2 rocket programs, which was the reason why the americans gave him and his associates and their families, sanctuary when he surrendered to them.

The Germans were not the only ones who were experimenting with rockets, a fact even Werner von Braun acknowledged himself when he was asked for his inspiration in designing and building rockets at one of his many media conferences he had whilst he was involved with NASA. He referred the American media to one of their own scientists and engineers, the great Robert Goddard who was actually experimenting, building and testing liquid fuel rockets when von Braun was still in school as a child. Dr von Braun referred to Goddard as a "rocket propolsion pioneer" whose earlier work and achievements actually led him into the field of rocket engineering. The Goddard Space Flight Centre in the US is named after him.

Perhaps the same aliens that gave Werner von Braun and his colleagues their insights into rocket propolsion technology also visited Dr Goddard 25 years earlier in the good old USA and imparted their knowledge to him as well. HHHHMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!. You just got to love the conspiracy theorists.

Unfortunately there are too many EriK von Daniken's in this world that look to unexplainable phenomena as a possible proof that sentient aliens have "visited the earth and manipulated our genes to create us in their likeness". Sounds like a familar theme to me. I say unfortunately because von Daniken was actually proven to be a fraud and his thought provoking book "Chariots of the gods" and in particular his follow up offerings were completely discredited as a result.
 
The German scientist that I think you are referring to, who was in charge of the US space program in its early stages was Dr Werner von Braun. He was one of many German scientists who were employed by NASA to help with their space program. Dr von Braun's claim to fame is the Saturn 5 multi stage rocket, which he designed. The Saturn 5 rocket was the only rocket that was big enough to launch a payload large enough to support a journey and landing of 3 astronauts to the moon and back. Dr von Braun was also heavily involved in Germany's WW2 V1 and V2 rocket programs, which was the reason why the americans gave him and his associates and their families, sanctuary when he surrendered to them.

The Germans were not the only ones who were experimenting with rockets, a fact even Werner von Braun acknowledged himself when he was asked for his inspiration in designing and building rockets at one of his many media conferences he had whilst he was involved with NASA. He referred the American media to one of their own scientists and engineers, the great Robert Goddard who was actually experimenting, building and testing liquid fuel rockets when von Braun was still in school as a child. Dr von Braun referred to Goddard as a "rocket propolsion pioneer" whose earlier work and achievements actually led him into the field of rocket engineering. The Goddard Space Flight Centre in the US is named after him.

Perhaps the same aliens that gave Werner von Braun and his colleagues their insights into rocket propolsion technology also visited Dr Goddard 25 years earlier in the good old USA and imparted their knowledge to him as well. HHHHMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!. You just got to love the conspiracy theorists.

Unfortunately there are too many EriK von Daniken's in this world that look to unexplainable phenomena as a possible proof that sentient aliens have "visited the earth and manipulated our genes to create us in their likeness". Sounds like a familar theme to me. I say unfortunately because von Daniken was actually proven to be a fraud and his thought provoking book "Chariots of the gods" and in particular his follow up offerings were completely discredited as a result.

Good stuff mate..you seem to read and watch as much as I do on the whole thing :)
have you seen Ancient Aliens season 1 and 2 docos..man I love them and rocked my socks ! :) hanging for season 3 !
von Daniken in the Ancient Aliens is like the least knowledgeable man on their..love watching some of the other guys on there..very very interesting people !
Legendary Times - Come Search with Us the man being most of it ..what a champ! Giorgio A. Tsoukalos !!
 
Slim6y, Open mindedness is the ability to entertain BOTH possibilities. I believe that we are not alone in the universe but I also know that what happened here was a 1 in a billion piece of good fortune that we struggle to re-create in a lab. My attitude would be open minded due to being open to the possibility we are alone.

Longirostris, Von Danikens theories have yet to be disproven. Others have counter theories but noone has absolutely dis proven his theories. Take the Piri Reis map of the land mass of Antarctica, found by Admiral Piri Reis in the 17 or 1800s, showing the actual land mass, under the ice, of Antarctica. It has never been free of ice since before the caveman but here is a map accurately showing the coastline that we, today, can only prove accurate with radar, depth sounding and satellite imaging. How, when and who debunked this theory from Chariots? I'd love to here that one. I have read about 20 out of 30 or so of his books and I don't agree with all his theories but most are almost impossible to disprove. I could give you 100 examples off the top of my head now that have yet to be disproved.
 
I think that was my point (not as elegantly put as your way) but was to open their mind to the possibility that there actually may not be life else where :)
 
Slim6y, Take the Piri Reis map of the land mass of Antarctica, found by Admiral Piri Reis in the 17 or 1800s, showing the actual land mass, under the ice, of Antarctica. It has never been free of ice since before the caveman but here is a map accurately showing the coastline that we, today, can only prove accurate with radar, depth sounding and satellite imaging. How, when and who debunked this theory from Chariots? I'd love to here that one. I have read about 20 out of 30 or so of his books and I don't agree with all his theories but most are almost impossible to disprove. I could give you 100 examples off the top of my head now that have yet to be disproved.

Good work mate..that is one of the crackers...no one can work that one out..its freaking amazing !!!!
when I was watching it on Ancient Aliens it was a cracker ..pretty much fell off my seat hahah
 
Slim6y....thats what I thought you meant but was not sure.:)
 
Scientific theory gets changed and revised all the time, that is why it is called theory. They can say with certainty that some things are 100% like gravity for example, but they can't actually prove why a lot of things are the way they are, hence theory. For example, a lot of Einsteins theories are in the process of reevaluation at the moment, that is the beauty of science, nothing is set in stone and there is always something new to discover.

Gravity is also a theory, just like evolution. In the case of evolution it has been a rock solid theory for over 150 yrs.
Theories are explanations of complex phenomena and are the epitome of scientific knowledge, nothing is higher than a theory. I still think you misunderstand scientific language, stating something a theory does not denoted a lack of evidence, also further evidence doesn't turns a theory into a law.

The leading Scientists said the human race being able to build things and talk and do everything CAN NOT HAPPEN by just plain evolution. no way no how...thats why we have been in search for the " missing link "
they have thought it was some kind of monkey or ape that we have not found yet but now realise thats crap..
even if their was a magic monkey that we have not found ..we would still be walking around with clubs sleeping in caves..
they said take a place that does not EVER get twisters ...then one day a twisters goes thru the town and distroys everything but at the same time as its smashing everything its building a 100% working 747 jet with all the nuts and bolts and new stickers put on it ready to fly...as in it can not happen...

Really? leading scientists, who, or just quacks from your favorite conspiracy program?

Ezekiel86, do you even know anything about evolution?
Judging by your comments on missing links im guessing not. if you get yourself informed on the subject, you might not be as easily mislead.

Another one is theory. Relativity and evolution are both theories, not enough evidence to prove beyond absolute doubt, but physics and gravity are both LAWS, absolutely proven beyond absolute doubt.

Theories do not turn into laws based on levels of evidence as you suggest.
 
G

Really? leading scientists, who, or just quacks from your favorite conspiracy program?

Ezekiel86, do you even know anything about evolution?
Judging by your comments on missing links im guessing not. if you get yourself informed on the subject, you might not be as easily mislead.


QUOTE]

I dont know anything at all please teach me o wise one...
so what was wrong with the "missing link" comment .. :)
as for the "quacks" from my "favorite conspiracy program"...have you seen the series ? Im guessing not
 
Sorry....bad example with gravity, but the difference between theory and laws of yours is incorrect. A theory is an educated opinion whereas a law is absolute. A law is the pinnacle of scientific FACT, a theory is an idea that cannot be proven as fact. When a theory is absolutely proven then it could become law.
 
I dont know anything at all please teach me o wise one...
so what was wrong with the "missing link" comment .. :)

Are you familiar with the term pseudo-science.
Well what do you consider a missing link in evolutionary terms?
Particularly, considering your comments about living in caves and carrying a club.

as for the "quacks" from my "favorite conspiracy program"...have you seen the series ? Im guessing not

Yes ive seen most of the series, that's how ive come to the quacks conclusion.
Ive watched it, and you would really have to desperately want to have blind belief in it to get anything from it.Even in this thread you've conceded at least one person from the show is a known fraud.
Ill happily debunk anything from it you wish to raise (besides religious points). Or would you rather it face no scrutiny?


Sorry....bad example with gravity, but the difference between theory and laws of yours is incorrect. A theory is an educated opinion whereas a law is absolute. A law is the pinnacle of scientific FACT, a theory is an idea that cannot be proven as fact. When a theory is absolutely proven then it could become law.

>

Anne Marie Helmenstine said:
Scientific Hypothesis, Theory, Law Definitions
Learn the Language of Science

Words have precise meanings in science. For example, 'theory', 'law', and 'hypothesis' don't all mean the same thing. Outside of science, you might say something is 'just a theory', meaning it's supposition that may or may not be true. In science, a theory is an explanation that generally is accepted to be true. Here's a closer look at these important, commonly misused terms.

Hypothesis

A hypothesis is an educated guess, based on observation. Usually, a hypothesis can be supported or refuted through experimentation or more observation. A hypothesis can be disproven, but not proven to be true.

Example: If you see no difference in the cleaning ability of various laundry detergents, you might hypothesize that cleaning effectiveness is not affected by which detergent you use. You can see this hypothesis can be disproven if a stain is removed by one detergent and not another. On the other hand, you cannot prove the hypothesis. Even if you never see a difference in the cleanliness of your clothes after trying a thousand detergents, there might be one you haven't tried that could be different.

Theory

A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. A theory is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it. Therefore, theories can be disproven. Basically, if evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, then the hypothesis can become accepted as a good explanation of a phenomenon. One definition of a theory is to say it's an accepted hypothesis.

Example: It is known that on June 30, 1908 in Tunguska, Siberia, there was an explosion equivalent to the detonation of about 15 million tons of TNT. Many hypotheses have been proposed for what caused the explosion. It is theorized that the explosion was caused by a natural extraterrestrial phenomenon, and was not caused by man. Is this theory a fact? No. The event is a recorded fact. Is this this theory generally accepted to be true, based on evidence to-date? Yes. Can this theory be shown to be false and be discarded? Yes.

Law

A law generalizes a body of observations. At the time it is made, no exceptions have been found to a law. Scientific laws explain things, but they do not describe them. One way to tell a law and a theory apart is to ask if the description gives you a means to explain 'why'.

Example: Consider Newton's Law of Gravity. Newton could use this law to predict the behavior of a dropped object, but he couldn't explain why it happened.

As you can see, there is no 'proof' or absolute 'truth' in science. The closest we get are facts, which are indisputable observations. Note, however, if you define proof as arriving at a logical conclusion, based on the evidence, then there is 'proof' in science. I work under the definition that to prove something implies it can never be wrong, which is different. If you're asked to define hypothesis, theory, and law, keep in mind the definitions of proof and of these words can vary slightly depending on the scientific discipline. What is important is to realize they don't all mean the same thing and cannot be used interchangeably.
 
No exceptions have been found to a law. Theories can be disproven.

My original hypothesis on "laws vs theories" has just been backed by your evidence and now their is no evidence to disprove me it is now Law.;)
ie: My word=law..........:)
 
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