waruikazi
Legendary
Oh man the money.
Money is the bain of this hobby!
Money is the bain of this hobby!
Oenpelli Python may be on the market in our life times
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What?? Are you serious, you think the only people that are thinking about the cost of the hatchies are the hobbiests and not those applying for the permits. What a load of crap. Those that are able to and have the means to apply for these animals are in to also make their fortunes as they have done with previous animals brought into the market. It will be no different to these if they get them and that goes for either of the two major parties that have the chance to collect and breed them.
Common Gordo, cool, but nothing special....geez. You miss the whole point. You sell them at first as Oenpelli's and then when then market dies down you mysteriously breed a Ghost Oenpelli that changes colour and you watch people go nuts for this new 'special' morph, it is just amazing what people will do when you bullllcraaap the pants off them with a new fandangled so called morph.....
Gee weez
:?
waruikazi
Legendary
What?? Are you serious, you think the only people that are thinking about the cost of the hatchies are the hobbiests and not those applying for the permits. What a load of crap. Those that are able to and have the means to apply for these animals are in to also make their fortunes as they have done with previous animals brought into the market. It will be no different to these if they get them and that goes for either of the two major parties that have the chance to collect and breed them.
Common Gordo, cool, but nothing special....geez. You miss the whole point. You sell them at first as Oenpelli's and then when then market dies down you mysteriously breed a Ghost Oenpelli that changes colour and you watch people go nuts for this new 'special' morph, it is just amazing what people will do when you bullllcraaap the pants off them with a new fandangled so called morph.....
Actually i think the people applying for permits first thoughts are finding and researching this species and how much it will cost to do that.
Just to put this into perspective think about Greg Miles' pig nose turtle project. I don't know how much it cost him to do his research, all his feild trips and collection. But i have seen his setup and i can tell you it would have easily cost well into the tens, maybe in the hundreds of thousands. All just to get them happy enough to breed. It's not a species that will ever be commonly kept (i think these giant snakes will probably be the same) yet he put the effort and money in. He sells hatchies for $500 odd bucks.
Maybe my head is clouded by my personal bias but i don't think the money is the first, second or third thing on the minds of those trying to bring them into captivity.
I agree that there is a level a personal satisfaction involved from bringing a new species into captivity and breeding/researching them, something I am sure, many of us would like to do. But lets be honest, they will not be sold for chicken feed just like roughies, albino olives, albino darwins and V.gluertii weren't. I don't have a problem with this and good luck to them, I hope they do make into captivity. It will be interesting see how little they think of the money then...!!!
Can I make 2 points?
1/ The purpose of this project may not be "to bring the species into the hobby" it's to ensure its survival should it be under a threat in the wild. Only excess progeny should be dispersed to other keepers. It least that's how I would like to see the priorities sorted.
2/ Would you really like to see them sold for a chicken feed? Why?
1/ The purpose of this project may not be "to bring the species into the hobby" it's to ensure its survival should it be under a threat in the wild. Only excess progeny should be dispersed to other keepers. It least that's how I would like to see the priorities sorted.
2/ Would you really like to see them sold for a chicken feed? Why?
greeny1
Well-Known Member
Let the money earners in the hobby stick to their morphs and albinos and lets see this species kept by professionals who are devoted and committed to this project.
GeckPhotographer
Very Well-Known Member
The proffesionals need to earn money too. Or can they just live off nothing?
This kind of logic will get you into trouble on APS. 95% hobbyists think reptiles should be bred purely for the love of it and sold for chicken feed. Trust me.
thefridge71
Not so new Member
Massive bait haha
killimike
Well-Known Member
You know what gets me, come believers think only about investment into breeding program in terms of cages, food, electricity, etc., they have no idea about the time involved in pushing through the bureaucracy and the skills required to succeed. How long did it take for John to get the permits to collect RSP? I would hate to see it translated into hours and hourly rate of a professional of his caliber. The knock-backs, frustrations, attending useless meetings, taking one step forward, two steps back - isn't that worth something? It's very easy for someone on dole spending days at the keyboard without a clue what's involved to be critical of those making money out of reptile breeding. This last comment wasn't aimed at anyone in particular but I am sure some will identify themselves with the idol.
GeckPhotographer
Very Well-Known Member
Not to mention the money it can cost in getting permits (If you want to collect an animal that the bureaucracy 'owns' in the wild they are sure as hell gonna want you to pay for it), the cost of traveling into some of these remote places.
And on the John example just how far the Kimberly really is for him to travel so many times to get them.
I agree with you totally.
The price these things sell for when they first hit the market is not only warranted but usually less than they are really worth. I doubt people really start making money off these until they get into the third or fourth breeding season when it is only the costs of the captive breeding setup going into it. (Exceptions to wild caught morphs such as albinos of species that are already widely kept easily in captivity, this takes a lot of the hassle out of the learning to understand the animal I am sure.)
I don't know about NT or other states but the DERM (Qld) changes "conservation value" for species taken from the wild for commercial purposes. The conservation value of protected wildlife is an expression in monetary terms of the State's conservation concern for the wildlife. For "vulnerable" species, it's whopping $8,453.-
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greeny1
Well-Known Member
Yes I understand that, they deserve whatever money they get out of it though. I mean breeders who are simply in it to make a quick dollar.
GeckPhotographer
Very Well-Known Member
Whats the max fine for illegally taking the same animal?
A
andysnakes
Guest
what happened to liasis freak ? i was really interested in why he has wanted one for as long as he can rememeber? obviously not that long!
I feel anyone going into this project to make money would be a fool.
First of all there are not that many people living in the surrounding area with the expertise to take on this project. If you had to relocate to live in the same habitat ($)
Procuring the correct food, don't they feed on black walleroos located in the Gunbalunya surrounds? Time and effort to get them feeding right. No gaurantee on breeding times or success. Don't know how it will work yet but doesn't sound like a get rich quick scheme to me.
First of all there are not that many people living in the surrounding area with the expertise to take on this project. If you had to relocate to live in the same habitat ($)
Procuring the correct food, don't they feed on black walleroos located in the Gunbalunya surrounds? Time and effort to get them feeding right. No gaurantee on breeding times or success. Don't know how it will work yet but doesn't sound like a get rich quick scheme to me.
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1/ Agree, as I stated, I would love to see these make it into captivity for conservation and for private hobbyests to enjoy.
2/ Never said I would like them to be sold for chicken feed, in fact I said the opposite. However, it was you who said they would not be thinking of the money. Now suddenly you are saying they deserve to earn the high dollars they will command when they first come available..!!
Personally I think it is fantastic that these animals may become available to the hobby, just like the other species I have previously mentioned. Yes, the professionals do need to earn money as well, so in saying that they are not thinking of the dollars, like I said, is rubbish. Any professional would have to calculate their time and efforts etc and the costs to way up whether or not this is a right move or not. Nobody does anything for free, after all we can't live off nothing. Surely they would be thinking of their ROI for all their efforts.
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