Fused tongues in GTPs

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Waterrat

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Recently I saw ad (not here) for a GTP with fused tongue. After talking to a few breeders, apparently it's not an uncommon occurrence but breeders prefer not to talk about it. I had a few neonates with fused or somehow deformed tongues and I am sure it's not a genetic problem but it's more likely something to do with incubation.
The condition is not impairing the snakes in any way, they feed and slough normally, the tongues don't hang out of their mouths, it's only visible when they flick.
Have anyone here had neonates with fused tongues? What's your opinion about the cause of it? Would you class such animals as inferior?

M
 
When you say infused tounges, do you mean the fork in the tounge?
If so, I wonder if that has any effect on their Jacobson's organ response?

Personally I haven't bred any GTP's but if I had any that did and I was to still move them on, I would be only making sure the buyer was aware, but I wouldn't say they were "inferior" to siblings that didn't have it unless it was causing a difference in how it behaved in comparison to normal. If that makes sense...
 
It has no effect on the J organ or anything else, I am sure of that.
It looks like this:

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i-fsVQvDm-M.jpg
i-LbS6n6W-M.jpg
 
hmm interesting, can i ask how/why your so sure its not genetic?

I'm coming up blank trying to think of anything during incubation that would cause that ill have to think on it some more
 
Some time back there was an article in Herpetofauna by Gavin Bedford regarding the breeding of Diamond Pythons in the NT. In the article he noted some of the young hatched with tongue abnormalities and speculated that this may have been the result of known temperature spikes during the incubation period. I'll see if I can find the issue and put up the details.
 
Very interesting, looks like it must happen pretty late in the development as you can still see a groove there?
Personally, I don't see how that animal could be called "inferior" unless it has a resp problem.
 
hmm interesting, can i ask how/why your so sure its not genetic?

Because I had in in hatchies from different, unrelated parents. I doubt it is an allele in the species as whole.
 
One of my little ones has a fused tongue and is the strongest Feeder of the lot ..... Doesn't bother me or the animal , after all we buy them for them to look pretty , not to French kiss them :lol:
 
I would personally believe it to be inferior if it was proven to be hereditary or was causing the animal any discomfort or health issues. So until there is a report implying this, all is good.

Have also seen the pic Waterrat, has been there for a long time.
 
I imagine in the wild it would impair their ability to tell the direction of any food scent. since they dont have the fork in the tongue. Similar to a person only having one eye and losing some depth perception.

I guess since we hand most food to them and they don't ahve to go looking for it, it shouldn't have any impact on the lives in the enclosure.
 
I think it's rather trivial to the snakes well being and tho it should be mentioned if the animal is being sold, it shouldn't effect the price.

It would still work the same way... they smell the food is close by, then their visual sensory organs (eyes) are used to locate movement.
 
Thank you all for the feedback. I know for a fact that sometimes animals like that end up in the freezer because they could tarnish the breeder's reputation. It's comforting to hear that it's not a big issue and you're absolutely right, it is nothing more than a cosmetic impairment .... if that.
 
I'm afraid I can offer no insight as to the possible cause/s of these fused tongues, but will state that such a minor imperfection certainly wouldn't deter me from buying an affected specimen.
If the strong, healthy, well-marked snake in a clutch had a forked-tongue I would buy it in a heart-beat.


Edited to say....

If anyone has a forked-tongued GTP bound for the freezer, please PM ME!!!! lol
 
I don't think it is a big issue but if proven to be genetic then yes I would say the animal is inferior. Though hardly to any extent that would stop me from keeping and enjoying such an animal. I personally wouldn't breed it though until I knew it wasn't genetic.
 
Another reason why I don't think it's genetic, I had that problem from 2 different females but their progeny, now 4 years-old are produced perfect neonates last year.
 
Another reason why I don't think it's genetic, I had that problem from 2 different females but their progeny, now 4 years-old are produced perfect neonates last year.

As you know that does not mean it is not genetic. Were they bred to their brothers or unrelated males? I tend to agree with you that it probably isn't though. Especially with your other observations that it shows up randomly in unrelated clutches.
 
i have seen this in an Eastern Brown snake hatchling ,although it was not clear if the tynes where stuck together by a substance it may have come into contact with on the factory floor it was found on,or they where actually fused together.
They are so small so hard to have a good look.
 
As you know that does not mean it is not genetic. Were they bred to their brothers or unrelated males?

I agree, if it was genetic it could show up in generations down the track. What also makes me think it's not genetic, other breeders had similar experiences, they just don't talk about it.
I never bred from siblings. Not that I am categorically against it but I believe it's better to avoid inbreeding if you can, unless you do selective breeding for certain traits.
 
id be inclined to think its a recessive gene, i find it slightly harder to believe multiple keepers with varying setups have had the same result's, this would mean they are all making the same mistake be it temp, humidity, vitamins, minerals etc etc.

and I'm assuming that breeders of multiple clutches use pretty much the same set up for each clutch, so if it was an incubation or dietary issue you would see it in multiple animals in every clutch incubated in that particular setup.
 
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