Why is live feeding of rats and mice banned in australia?

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Just getting back to the actual question again

Why is feeding live insects encouraged yet feeding live mammals is so touchy
If you leave out the possible bites etc they are both living creatures

[now where did I leave those fluffy little kittens]
 
What did they do, chuck the rat in, close the cage door, walk off and watch Masterchef?!

i have no idea, but things can go wrong so quickly in those kinds of situations
 
Animals in the wild are ALWAYS aware they are potential prey , that is why they evolve hiding and camouflage abilities . Usually one or more will be on lookout duty .

I agree with you Jungletrans with you are saying and that is why they learn thier hiding abilities, but I reckon in a lot of cases they wouldn't know what hit them. Like when you go hunting and you have the wind in your face, the animal you are hunting may be wary that they are potential prey and are on the look out at all times, but aren't expecting to be shot and become tucker, otherwise, why would they stand there and not run or hide from the danger?
 
It could be because in mammals such as rats and mice it is so easy to ascribe human feelings and emotions - to anthropomorphise. We think (or maybe actually do, who knows?) we see fear or terror in the mammal, but who would ascribe fear to a roach?

That said, unless it is necessary - as for insect eating species that will not take static food - why subject any living thing to pain?
 
I thought it was advised against. The claims that it is an illicit practice is news to me?
 
It's officialy illicit. In extreme cases however (ie, snake would die otherwise and aren't even taking force-fed), people turn the other cheek. There are so many gaps, allowances and 'blind eyes' it's not funny. We've never had a snake who wouldn't take dead food eventually, so I haven't been in that situation, but it's one of those things that isn't really spoken about.
This said, live-feeding is not something I agree with at all. I don't even like culling rats, because I like them as animals, but I've long come to terms with the fact that, having a passion for carnivorous pets, eventually something's going to have to die to feed them. Besides, I love my steak and I don't flatter any illusions as to where that comes from, so who am I to judge?
 
When live feeding in captivity the animal being feed can sense where it is and in nearly all cases can see the snake approaching therefore it is put under under stress where as in the wild the animal is nearly always taken by ambush and therefore not expecting the attack,.

I am not sure that is quite true. I have seen a few videos on the net where the mouse seems completely unaware it is about to be dinner and shows not outward signs of stress.

I would have thought the over riding thing is the snake owner doesn't want to take a chance that the rodent will put up a struggle and potentially injure the snake. which would you prefer, feed a dead mouse/rat and know your snake is safe or put in a live mouse/rat just to get a thrill of the attack with the chance your prize possession might get injured.

I have even seen a video where a snake and guinea pig cohabit in an enclosure.
 
Also, rats and mice don't instantly die when a snake gets hold of them. It takes time for the snake to kill them. Whereas a lizard chomps down on that little cricket and it's gone very very quickly xD
 
:shock: Those pictures of snakes that have been injured by there dinner are horrific! How would u feel if ur steak jumped off the plate & bit or scratched you like that! Im curious to know, as others have questioned, how long was that poor snake left to be attacked like that? That is just terrible!
 
I have seen such a document (for Qld anyway) mate, I will see if I can find it. It is not illegal to live feed in Queensland however, it is not at all recommended except as a last resort for difficult feeders. It is a practice that is best left to experienced keepers as quick reflexes and and a disregard for getting bitten must be present. The ethics involved are subjective and a bit odd if you ask me. I've timed both CO2 euthanasia as well as constriction, unconsciousness occurs in about the same amount of time, ergo, no real difference. In the few times I've had to live feed rodents, I would not say I've noted any increased stress in the prey item prior to the feeding strike. Stress appears to hit around the same time in both gassing or constriction, when asphyxiation commences. Of course these are merely my personal observations, and not based on any sort of peer reviewed science. I do not recommend live feeding of mammalian prey items except as a last resort!

Feeding live is not something that should be done because it "looks awesome!" as the risk levels for potential problems are quite high. For getting a difficult feeding reptile onto food though, it is usually quite effective if all other feeding avenues have been exhausted.

this discussion comes up frequently, but i have never actually seen a document that specifically states feeding rodents whilst they are alive is actually illegal. can someone please post such a document or link to one?
 
Why is it legal to feed live fish then?

Now they're well above insects in neurological world....

Or is it technically illegal?

What about boiling a cray or yabby live? We do that for US!!!
 
slim6y I can't stand going to seafood restaurants because I hate seeing ppl chose their lobster or crab that they want to eat. To boil an animal alive is something I hate thinking about. I would never do it and will not allow my family to do it either. Ppl think I'm stupid - its only a crab, but my parents caught and boiled their own once and the crabs cried in pain on hitting the water. I yelled at my mum told her she was cruel and I would not even taste them. My Ex partner did the same with morten bay bugs once. Poor things, I hate animal cruelty no matter what it is. I have trouble treading on ants.

I bought live feeder fish for my pet oscar once - never again. Poor little fish were jumping out the water to get away from Oscar so I caught them and pulled them back out. Unfortunately he was quicker at catching them than I was but I did manage to save 6 from 14. They can eat their pellets.

We had a speaker at our local herp club once telling us fresh is best and particularly commented on feeding our snakes live food. None of our members were happy and he says, "They do in the wild". But in the wild the prey food isn't locked up in a little box with no chance of escape. I guess the wild snakes are susceptible to being bitten by their prey but doesn't mean they survive nor does it make it ok for us.

I've had to resort to live feeding to get a hatchling started but I quickly converted him to freshly killed and then onto thawed stuff in no time. And I couldn't watch :( Well, I did peek to make sure the mouse wasn't gonna get my little snake, then I covered him and left him to it.
 
those pictures are horrible those poor snakes! they would not have survived those injuries would they? I can believe people would even think of feeding a captive snake a live mouse/rat in a caged environment where neither can have the chance of defending themselves. rodent or not its just not nice. of course the mouse or rat is going to attack its predator as it cannot run away far being stuck in a cage. to be honest id love to watch my Jungle feed on a live mouse as its a natural way of life, however it just isnt worth the risk when they are stuck in a man made environment. defrosted mice for my precious girl she is worth too much to have happen to her what happened to those other snakes in the pictures. id never forgive myself.
thats just my opinion :p
cheers!
Cara
 
So... where's the original poster in this debate, or is it just being left to everyone else? Hmmm...
Profile has '1 of 1 posts' and bugger all else. I vote wind-up.
 
A speaker recommended to feed live as they do it in the wild. How many snakes get injured or killed by their prey in the wild? We have NO idea.
What an irresponsible comment.
There are always the idiots out there that get some kind of thrill to do these things. Always have been there and always will. Seems to make them feel powerful or something for some reason.
We were given a diamond from the vets that had been in their care for ages with rat bite scars all over it. They just wanted it to have a good home.
If you love your pets, you would not even consider feeding live.
In saying that though, I have had to start of a few hatchies by feeding live pinkys as nothing else seemed to start them.
 
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