Ships
Well-Known Member
My point was that dogs will at times kill for enjoyment not out of any need, in any case this is all very pointless.
Ban the deed not the breed!!
- Thread starter phantomreptiles
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myusername
Active Member
Does anyone on here genuinely believe that, hypothetically, if pit bulls had never been bred (never existed), and their numbers were replaced by the 'average dog' in all statistics, that dog related deaths would remain the same or actually drop?
ittybitty
Not so new Member
omg how stupid can you be?!? staffies dont LOVE to fight each other. Fighting between ANY dog is a dominance/control thing. To determine where one stands. Unfortunately one too many times it results in severe injuries and/or death. Dogs arent aggressive because they love it, there is ALWAYS a reason behind a dogs behavior of any kind.
A male dog will not seek out another just so he can fight because he enjoys it, he will seek a female, and if another male comes across his path, then yeah, it'll be on..
As far as pets tearing apart livestock, they may not appear to be doing it for food at the time, but if you read up on wolves, foxes etc, they will kill when the opportunity arises, and then leave the carcass where it fell, only to return when needed.. Sure you can say 'but they sleep on the bed and are house pets'.. That DOES NOT take away the fact that they are descendants of the WOLF, they STILL HAVE natural instincts. Whether it be a Pomeranian, staffy, sibe, dane etc.
Black.Rabbit
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T
Tildy
Guest
I beg to differ dude. All of the staffies I have encountered have only ever sought other dogs out as playmates. I currently own a staffy and her two best mates are my friend's staffy and my boyfriend's kelpie. Mum owns a small white fluffy dog and he growls and snaps at her all the time and she never reacts. Her biggest reaction to other dog's agression is to hide between my legs. The only fights she has ever been in are with her kelpie friend over bones and they have never ever drawn even a small ammount of blood. She doesn't even start them usually, it's the kelpie that does. She has never sought out a fight in her life. Neither has my friend's staffy for that matter even when the neighbour's boxer pup is all over her annoying the **** out of her. Staffies are some of the best natured dogs I have come across. As for sheep, that would be on par with family pets killing native animals or other family pets like birds, rodents etc. They may not be immediately hungry but instinct kicks in. To them, it moves like food, smells like food and looks like food. If you want to prevent them from doing that then contain them better. It comes back to the human taking the blame for poor management not the animal for following its instinct or conditioning.
Dipcdame
Very Well-Known Member
I agree, it's the way pits are brought up, this includes shepherds (got one of those myself), mastiffs (mine is crossed with one of them), rotttweilers, etc. when purchasing a dog, one should research the particular breeds traits, and discover how to discourage the inbred traits that labels the breed as vicious or agressive, then take steps to counteract this. THE ONUS IS ON THE OWNER!!!!!!
Our boy is graded as a 'gentle giant' at our regular vets, after consults for his age, (he's 11, when the vet says he should have only lasted 9 - 10 years), and by the lady there who bathes him every six weeks.
He IS gentle, it's in his nature, as much as it's part of his training,
I firmly believe there are individual dogs, of no specific breeds, who will turn nasty, no matter what. that's my opinion, and as an obedience instructor, I've seen 'em all!!!!!!
Our boy is graded as a 'gentle giant' at our regular vets, after consults for his age, (he's 11, when the vet says he should have only lasted 9 - 10 years), and by the lady there who bathes him every six weeks.
He IS gentle, it's in his nature, as much as it's part of his training,
I firmly believe there are individual dogs, of no specific breeds, who will turn nasty, no matter what. that's my opinion, and as an obedience instructor, I've seen 'em all!!!!!!
Ships
Well-Known Member
I've owned four staffies and currently have one, I've worked in a job for the past 25 years where I have quite a bit to do with dogs and the ramifications of when things go wrong. What I've said has come from experience not soley from opinion.
T
Tildy
Guest
Comes from your experience which granted may be extensive but there are others on here that have quite a bit to do with dogs as well that are not of the same opinion so it's really all a matter of opinion. I guess my point is that you can't tar whole breeds with the same brush. It's up to us humans to step up and take some responsibility instead of these knee jerk reactions to keep the general media fed public happy. It's on par with those morons who go out shooting sharks just cause thier mate got attacked the other week. If you can identify vicious individuals that cant be re-trained then by all means get rid of them, but don't punish responsible owners and innocent dogs because the human population is riddled with idiots. And don't make generalisations that are going to perpetuate the stereotype that has people picking thier little dogs up and glaring at me when I walk my dog like it shouldn't be allowed out in public when half the time thier dog will be the one to growl or snap at my dog which is hiding between my legs.
Red-Ink
Very Well-Known Member
How about just some facts hey....
I won't get into the whole pitbull arguments having owned one in the past....
Page 14 may be of interest to people
http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/dlg/dlgho...s of Dog Attacks in NSW 2005-06 - 2009-10.pdf
Page 7 on this one
http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/dlg/dlgho...n/Dog Attack Report July 2004 - June 2005.pdf
Cheers
I won't get into the whole pitbull arguments having owned one in the past....
Page 14 may be of interest to people
http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/dlg/dlgho...s of Dog Attacks in NSW 2005-06 - 2009-10.pdf
Page 7 on this one
http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/dlg/dlgho...n/Dog Attack Report July 2004 - June 2005.pdf
Cheers
phantomreptiles
Well-Known Member
Thanks to everyone for their input it has been most interesting.
At the end of the day any pet/animal has the potential to harm a human - yes even a goldifsh - a drowning risk;-), so all we can do is be as responsible as we possibly can be.
I think everyone that has replied has had their own experience so we always will get conflict. I have had good experience with pits, staffs, rotties, sheps etc, but bad experience with chi, shar peis, akitias, poodles, kelpies, cattle dogs so I am predjudiced toward them and I believe we all do the same with whatever breed we have had a bad experience with. I guess my only issue is if a person cannot 100% identify a dog breed they fall back on - it was a pit bull, so it comes back to my title - "ban the deed not the breed"
To Tildy I also get very annoyed about people grabbing their land shark and glaring at me - depsite the fact that sharkie was trying to take a piece out of my dog, (due to no training as most people don't believe their white fluffy needs training) the problem is if my dog retaliates she most likely will cause alot of trauma, then the papers would have great fun about the nasty pit attacking an innocent fluffy.
I am sure it would of been covered but Pits do NOT lock jaw.
To go off topic, my pit x "Rosie" is going to the specialists tomorrow to have a root canal done so wish her and me (her very, very anxious mother) luck! And no she did not get a fractured carnassial from eating anyone, but from a sawn marrowbone that my ex gave her, depsite my express wishes against it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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At the end of the day any pet/animal has the potential to harm a human - yes even a goldifsh - a drowning risk;-), so all we can do is be as responsible as we possibly can be.
I think everyone that has replied has had their own experience so we always will get conflict. I have had good experience with pits, staffs, rotties, sheps etc, but bad experience with chi, shar peis, akitias, poodles, kelpies, cattle dogs so I am predjudiced toward them and I believe we all do the same with whatever breed we have had a bad experience with. I guess my only issue is if a person cannot 100% identify a dog breed they fall back on - it was a pit bull, so it comes back to my title - "ban the deed not the breed"
To Tildy I also get very annoyed about people grabbing their land shark and glaring at me - depsite the fact that sharkie was trying to take a piece out of my dog, (due to no training as most people don't believe their white fluffy needs training) the problem is if my dog retaliates she most likely will cause alot of trauma, then the papers would have great fun about the nasty pit attacking an innocent fluffy.
I am sure it would of been covered but Pits do NOT lock jaw.
To go off topic, my pit x "Rosie" is going to the specialists tomorrow to have a root canal done so wish her and me (her very, very anxious mother) luck! And no she did not get a fractured carnassial from eating anyone, but from a sawn marrowbone that my ex gave her, depsite my express wishes against it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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TurboMoped:I have been around numerous pitbulls and my educated opinion is that they should remain 100% illegal to breed or own in Australia, Don't believe what pitbull owners try to tell you, the dogs have a genetic disposition for aggression and were line bred for that exact reason. A lot of owners believe they have "trained" their pitbull and got them worked out....this is not the case.
i dont own a pitty..well much of one anyway my dogs dad was pittyx lot of my mates have them and they are the most placid dogs i've ever met. sooks through and through . untrainable ?? bullshit all dogs are pack animals and if there is a leader they will follow. my mate runs a dogtraining business used by rspca and has two purebred razorlines that he uses for the courses. pitbulls are easily the most trainable dog in his eyes and he'd have a pretty sound idea as he's trained over 500 of them. ( i think ceaser millan has a remy bloodline as his own training dog as well). i agree there are the few that give them a bad name and the media will easily jump on that bandwagon and criticize the problem not the answer just as they always do. THE MEDIA IS A JOKE
i dont own a pitty..well much of one anyway my dogs dad was pittyx lot of my mates have them and they are the most placid dogs i've ever met. sooks through and through . untrainable ?? bullshit all dogs are pack animals and if there is a leader they will follow. my mate runs a dogtraining business used by rspca and has two purebred razorlines that he uses for the courses. pitbulls are easily the most trainable dog in his eyes and he'd have a pretty sound idea as he's trained over 500 of them. ( i think ceaser millan has a remy bloodline as his own training dog as well). i agree there are the few that give them a bad name and the media will easily jump on that bandwagon and criticize the problem not the answer just as they always do. THE MEDIA IS A JOKE
KaotikJezta
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What I love about those two reports (I read the 2005 one earlier) is how they skew the figures by working out the percentages based on number of registered dogs. Everyone knows that people stopped declaring there pitties to council or lying about the breed when the threat of seizure started to become a real problem. So, even though there are breeds responsible for many more actual attacks than pit bulls, pit bulls come out with a higher per capita percentage rating. Lets face it, they want to bring in the legislation so they'll skew the results anyway they can.
And phantomreptiles good luck to your doggie tomorrow.
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T
Tildy
Guest
Good luck phantom. I'm sure Rosie will be fine. I also do think that Red Ink's links are very interesting and definately worth a read. Of all the dog attacks in aust each year, only half result in any injury at all and then only 10% or less result in hospitalisation with only around 1% (if that) resulting in death. And of those dog attacks the majority were determined to be not under control or it was unknown if the owner was even present much less in control (owner responsibility). The most common action against the dog was euthenasia where as up until last year the most common action against the owner was a warning or further investigation. Last year it was a penalty notice (fine). That tells me that tougher laws are needed to penalise irresponsible owners not to restrict dog breeds.
And to all those parents that let thier silly kids throw rubbish and sticks at my dog and dance around yanking thier arms in and out over the back fence, it is you that deserves the fine not me. If a dog ever hurts your kid for doing that feel free to take all of the blame because you didn't teach your kid to be intelligent around animals.
And to all those parents that let thier silly kids throw rubbish and sticks at my dog and dance around yanking thier arms in and out over the back fence, it is you that deserves the fine not me. If a dog ever hurts your kid for doing that feel free to take all of the blame because you didn't teach your kid to be intelligent around animals.
BigWillieStyles
Well-Known Member
Truth is that it is probably the owners and not the dogs. But the easiest way to deal with the issue is to make the dog breed a less attractive pet as enforcing laws on owners is a lot more problematic. The problem with making the punshiments harsher to owners who were irresponsible, is that they are only enforced after an attack when the damage has been done and most owners will just take the chance that it wont happen to them.
What is so appealing about the breed any way? Its a dog that has been bred for aggression. It seems to me that the image of a tough dog is what makes the dog so attractive as a pet.?
Its a bit like the case of dangerous weapons in Australia. Automatic weapons in Australia are stictly monitored, surely, another weapon, a dangerous dog, should also be monitored, if not banned.
What is so appealing about the breed any way? Its a dog that has been bred for aggression. It seems to me that the image of a tough dog is what makes the dog so attractive as a pet.?
Its a bit like the case of dangerous weapons in Australia. Automatic weapons in Australia are stictly monitored, surely, another weapon, a dangerous dog, should also be monitored, if not banned.
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stupid question. whats soo appealing about small dogs then, snakes, lizards, frogs chickens etc. people keep what they adore. to each their own.
kawasakirider
Very Well-Known Member
Punish the Deed, not the Breed!
My brother has a staffy/pit mix and he is the most loyal, lovable dog I've seen. He has no issues with other dogs at all. I had an elderly maltese, and they slept together every night when he visited. She would sleep right up against his stomach. This is 35KG of Pure MUSCLE sleeping with an essentially decrepit (not in a bad way, I love and miss Molly dearly R.I.P) rodent sized dog.
I have plenty of stories and pics I'll post tomorrow.
My brother has a staffy/pit mix and he is the most loyal, lovable dog I've seen. He has no issues with other dogs at all. I had an elderly maltese, and they slept together every night when he visited. She would sleep right up against his stomach. This is 35KG of Pure MUSCLE sleeping with an essentially decrepit (not in a bad way, I love and miss Molly dearly R.I.P) rodent sized dog.
I have plenty of stories and pics I'll post tomorrow.
The Great American Pit Bull Terrier - YouTube
BigWillieStyles
Well-Known Member
Yeah sure, but you just completely misinterepreted my question. Given that different dogs have different characteristics and it is a large part of choosing a dog, what are the characteristics that make the Pitbull type dogs different to others?
BigWillieStyles
Well-Known Member
Nice iguana
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