WA is asking for your help!!!!!!!!!
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Firedrake
Well-Known Member
Snowman I'm already on it. She also knows fully how much I support this and that's not the sort of response I even expected from her. I think she's been brain washed 
I don't mind that it's her choice not to support it but to argue that DEC aren't in it for the money is astounding... I'm quite disappointed honestly.
I don't mind that it's her choice not to support it but to argue that DEC aren't in it for the money is astounding... I'm quite disappointed honestly.
AndrewHenderson
Well-Known Member
If your work collegue genuinly thinks this then they are retarded. Keeping lists and illegal collecting are 2 seperate issues and chaging one will never affect the other because the people wanting the keepers list expanded are doing the right thing. People illegally taking don't give 2 ******s what is or isn't on the list, they are taking it anyway.
Uhhh you can keep rabbits here hey? I'm sure I saw the garden center here selling them.
stencorp69
Well-Known Member
Yep that's possibly true but certainly not with out informing yourself on the subject matter of the topic of the thread.
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Firedrake
Well-Known Member
I know, I tried telling her that. Apparently because our fine is only $10000 and there's no jail time here compared to $28000 and jail time in the eastern states makes them more likely to do it here....except if that were true it wouldn't make an inkling of difference because they'd already be doing it!!!!
stencorp69
Well-Known Member
To put it in perspective and as posted elsewhere,
Here is a typical email I send off to the Minister. If you are happy with the system the way it is then do nothing - but complaining on the forum and doing nothing is the ultimate waste of time. It might initially take a little time to type the first email but each time you send one off it gets easier and DOES make a difference.
Dear Minister,
I refer to my previous emails on the West Australian Herpetological Society’s submissions to your office and the Department of Environment & Conservation. In previous emails we have requested clarification from your department regarding the details of our last meeting with them (May 2011), which have still not been clarified – specifically the following point;
From: Stephen Wyndham
Sent: Tuesday, 31 May 2011 10:04 PM
To: Wyre, Gordon
Cc: Mell, David; [email protected]
Subject: DEC Wahs meeting
Increased Species
Gordon Wyre has requested the Department be provided by the society an initial list of 6 animals to be submitted for assessment of suitability for addition to an expanded species list. It is expected that the assessment of the initial six animals will take approximately 6 months and at this time a decision will be made on the addition of them to the keeping species list. It is would be reasonable to expect this to be at or near January 2012. It was also indicated; animals currently kept and established in captivity (in WA or interstate) with known husbandry care information, would best suited selection in the initial list as it would aid in the assessment process. This initial process of assessment will determine the additional resources required by the department to assess the larger list included in the societies submission to DEC. The Department expects that the assessment of the expanded list would be completed in 12 months after the initial list of 6 assessment period is completed – namely 12 to 18 months.
Department officer David Mell’s response, following, doesn’t clarify the society’s understanding of the meeting. The society has no faith in the department reviewing the approved keeping list in 5 years times as this was initially supposed to have taken place in 2005 and is still yet to take place in 2011. Any delay to expand the approved herpetofauna keeping list as outlined in the society’s submission is seen as a stalling tactic by DEC.
From: Mell, David [mailto[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, 20 July 2011 1:52 PM
To: Stephen Wyndham
Subject: WAHS Meeting
Increased Species – Expansion of the species list will be limited and will not be annual – perhaps the list would be reviewed every 5 years. DEC will use an initial 6 species provided by WAHS to assess and then review the process and time investment to determine impact on resources. At the conclusion of this process DEC will determine the extent to which further assessments can be made. Any additional species approved need to be added to the Regulations subject to Ministerial approval for them to be reflected in the list of pet herpetofauna. This process is not as onerous for example as amending the Act, but it does involve amending legislation.
It is difficult to understand the department’s reluctance to agree to expand the keeping list as outlined in our submission when many of the species requested and many of them endemic to the WA, are readily kept interstate. There are several python species in WA that the department has actively co-operated in exporting interstate (and then importing back again - despite the supposed risk of IBD), whose offspring are now available to the pet keeping hobby interstate – this in itself is not an issue, but the fact that the hobby in WA don’t have access to the same species on the approved keeping list beggars believe at the inequitable treatment of our own state’s government department.
I have included below the recent price list for John Weigel’s Snakeranch (below). John Weigel was involved with collecting the Rough Scale Pythons from north west WA and DEC provided him with the permits to export them, yet DEC hasn’t approved the animal for keeping in WA! I understand the department recently exported a number of the Rough Scale Pythons from the Broome office, again it is hard to understand the logic of this when they will end up in the pet trade for interstate hobbyists and not be available locally. Further to the Rough Scale python and also highlighted in green is the pygmy python which is again endemic to the state – WA keepers aren’t able to keep the animal but it is freely available to interstate keepers.
I would be astonished if your office didn’t see the incongruous treatment of the WA herpetofauna keeping hobby by the DEC as outlined in this email and as such I request the minister direct the department to approve the expanded keeping list as outlined in our submission.
Snake Ranch price list http://www.snakeranch.com.au/2020-price-list/
Here is a typical email I send off to the Minister. If you are happy with the system the way it is then do nothing - but complaining on the forum and doing nothing is the ultimate waste of time. It might initially take a little time to type the first email but each time you send one off it gets easier and DOES make a difference.
Dear Minister,
I refer to my previous emails on the West Australian Herpetological Society’s submissions to your office and the Department of Environment & Conservation. In previous emails we have requested clarification from your department regarding the details of our last meeting with them (May 2011), which have still not been clarified – specifically the following point;
From: Stephen Wyndham
Sent: Tuesday, 31 May 2011 10:04 PM
To: Wyre, Gordon
Cc: Mell, David; [email protected]
Subject: DEC Wahs meeting
Increased Species
Gordon Wyre has requested the Department be provided by the society an initial list of 6 animals to be submitted for assessment of suitability for addition to an expanded species list. It is expected that the assessment of the initial six animals will take approximately 6 months and at this time a decision will be made on the addition of them to the keeping species list. It is would be reasonable to expect this to be at or near January 2012. It was also indicated; animals currently kept and established in captivity (in WA or interstate) with known husbandry care information, would best suited selection in the initial list as it would aid in the assessment process. This initial process of assessment will determine the additional resources required by the department to assess the larger list included in the societies submission to DEC. The Department expects that the assessment of the expanded list would be completed in 12 months after the initial list of 6 assessment period is completed – namely 12 to 18 months.
Department officer David Mell’s response, following, doesn’t clarify the society’s understanding of the meeting. The society has no faith in the department reviewing the approved keeping list in 5 years times as this was initially supposed to have taken place in 2005 and is still yet to take place in 2011. Any delay to expand the approved herpetofauna keeping list as outlined in the society’s submission is seen as a stalling tactic by DEC.
From: Mell, David [mailto
[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, 20 July 2011 1:52 PM
To: Stephen Wyndham
Subject: WAHS Meeting
Increased Species – Expansion of the species list will be limited and will not be annual – perhaps the list would be reviewed every 5 years. DEC will use an initial 6 species provided by WAHS to assess and then review the process and time investment to determine impact on resources. At the conclusion of this process DEC will determine the extent to which further assessments can be made. Any additional species approved need to be added to the Regulations subject to Ministerial approval for them to be reflected in the list of pet herpetofauna. This process is not as onerous for example as amending the Act, but it does involve amending legislation.
It is difficult to understand the department’s reluctance to agree to expand the keeping list as outlined in our submission when many of the species requested and many of them endemic to the WA, are readily kept interstate. There are several python species in WA that the department has actively co-operated in exporting interstate (and then importing back again - despite the supposed risk of IBD), whose offspring are now available to the pet keeping hobby interstate – this in itself is not an issue, but the fact that the hobby in WA don’t have access to the same species on the approved keeping list beggars believe at the inequitable treatment of our own state’s government department.
I have included below the recent price list for John Weigel’s Snakeranch (below). John Weigel was involved with collecting the Rough Scale Pythons from north west WA and DEC provided him with the permits to export them, yet DEC hasn’t approved the animal for keeping in WA! I understand the department recently exported a number of the Rough Scale Pythons from the Broome office, again it is hard to understand the logic of this when they will end up in the pet trade for interstate hobbyists and not be available locally. Further to the Rough Scale python and also highlighted in green is the pygmy python which is again endemic to the state – WA keepers aren’t able to keep the animal but it is freely available to interstate keepers.
I would be astonished if your office didn’t see the incongruous treatment of the WA herpetofauna keeping hobby by the DEC as outlined in this email and as such I request the minister direct the department to approve the expanded keeping list as outlined in our submission.
Snake Ranch price list http://www.snakeranch.com.au/2020-price-list/
MiddleOfNowhere
Not so new Member
Letter sent...Again
Tassie97
Very Well-Known Member
Tasmania's list...
Agamidae (Dragons)
- Rankinia diemensis (Mountain Dragon)
- Acritoscincus duperreyi (Three-lined Skink)
- Cyclodomorphus casuarinae (She-oak Skink) (endemic)
- Egernia whitii (White's Skink)
- Lampropholis delicata (Delicate Skink)
- Lerista bougainvillii (Bougainville's Skink)
- Niveoscincus orocryptum (Mountain Skink) (endemic)
- Niveoscincus greeni (Northern Snow Skink) (endemic)
- Niveoscincus microlepidotus (Southern Snow Skink) (endemic)
- Niveoscincus ocellatus (Spotted Skink) (endemic)
- Niveoscincus palfreymani (Pedra Branca Skink) (endemic)
- Niveoscincus pretiosus (Tasmanian Tree Skink) (endemic)
- Niveoscincus metallicus (Metallic Skink)
- Pseudemoia entrecasteauxii (Southern Grass Skink )
- Pseudemoia pagenstecheri (Tussock Skink)
- Pseudemoia rawlinsoni (Glossy Grass Skink)
- Tiliqua nigrolutea (Blotched Blue-tongued Lizard)
- Eulamprus tympanum (Southern Water Skink)
- Austrelaps superbus (Lowland Copperhead)
- Drysdalia coronoides (White-lipped Snake)
- Notechis scutatus (Tasmanian Tiger Snake)
Megzz
Well-Known Member
Yeah Tasmania's list is sad indeed :lol:
P
Pythoninfinite
Guest
"My response as a DEC certified wildlife carer….
Currently as the species are being caught wild and placed into to domestic situations, I’m not able to support the letter.
When the government adopts a system where a limited gene pool is established and documented captive breeding is the norm, I may change my views and be supporting.
The drama is that wild caught snakes are taken from natural habitat – which is against conservation principle and encourages poachers taking our protected species.
Australia’s reptiles are so in demand overseas that the live trade of native reptiles is second only to drugs in illegal trade in Australia. One reptile can fetch up to $80 000.
The BIG issue that a poacher can take an threatened species and get $80 000 for it..
If he gets caught the biggest fine that WA gives is maximum $10 000 and NO jail time…
I think the pressure should be on the government to review it’s penalty system and bring that in line with other states where the fines are up to $280 000 and 2 years jail time.
If you are interested have a look at the proposed snake keeping rules that are being introduced in NT – they include DNA testing of all reptiles to minimise poachers taking form the wild and to build up stock of captive breed snakes – which are happier and protects our precious wildlife.
I hope this explains why DEC aren’t making any moves to increase the species that are allowed to be kept in captivity, as it increases the illegal trade.
DEC are supporter of well set up breeding programs and WA isn’t up to standard yet."
This is the same old crap regurgitated with disturbing regularity by those who are brainwashed by departmental propaganda. The myth that vast numbers of common species are being sent illegally overseas and sold for huge profits is just bull poo. Many Oz species have been breeding OS for decades, and most are bred in sufficient numbers to satisfy the OS demand without the need to send more.Even in 1995 carpet pythons were selling in the US for as little as $200 each - US captive-bred stock. I concede that there a few target species still commanding a high price, but the $80,000 figure you mention is fanciful, except for maybe something like an Oenpelli. The demand will still exist for those regardless of whether there are more allowed species or not.
Jamie
Currently as the species are being caught wild and placed into to domestic situations, I’m not able to support the letter.
When the government adopts a system where a limited gene pool is established and documented captive breeding is the norm, I may change my views and be supporting.
The drama is that wild caught snakes are taken from natural habitat – which is against conservation principle and encourages poachers taking our protected species.
Australia’s reptiles are so in demand overseas that the live trade of native reptiles is second only to drugs in illegal trade in Australia. One reptile can fetch up to $80 000.
The BIG issue that a poacher can take an threatened species and get $80 000 for it..
If he gets caught the biggest fine that WA gives is maximum $10 000 and NO jail time…
I think the pressure should be on the government to review it’s penalty system and bring that in line with other states where the fines are up to $280 000 and 2 years jail time.
If you are interested have a look at the proposed snake keeping rules that are being introduced in NT – they include DNA testing of all reptiles to minimise poachers taking form the wild and to build up stock of captive breed snakes – which are happier and protects our precious wildlife.
I hope this explains why DEC aren’t making any moves to increase the species that are allowed to be kept in captivity, as it increases the illegal trade.
DEC are supporter of well set up breeding programs and WA isn’t up to standard yet."
This is the same old crap regurgitated with disturbing regularity by those who are brainwashed by departmental propaganda. The myth that vast numbers of common species are being sent illegally overseas and sold for huge profits is just bull poo. Many Oz species have been breeding OS for decades, and most are bred in sufficient numbers to satisfy the OS demand without the need to send more.Even in 1995 carpet pythons were selling in the US for as little as $200 each - US captive-bred stock. I concede that there a few target species still commanding a high price, but the $80,000 figure you mention is fanciful, except for maybe something like an Oenpelli. The demand will still exist for those regardless of whether there are more allowed species or not.
Jamie
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Firedrake
Well-Known Member
Saddest response ever...I got:
Just think green...
Hug a tree
Save a whale
Spread the word
...I nearly cried
Just think green...
Hug a tree
Save a whale
Spread the word
...I nearly cried
Can you ask you work colleague which species can be sold for $80.000.- ????? I would really like to know.
What else has Australia got apart from drugs and reptiles that's worth illegal exporting? What's the third item on the list - bottled farts?
P
Pythoninfinite
Guest
That is guaranteed to have a negative effect on any argumenmt put up by those who want change. If you have said it once, you probably need to wait and see what effect it has before trying again. Making a daily nuisance of yourself will not enhance your credibility - if someone did that to me I'd just ignore them as having nothing better to do with their time. If you can't argue the case objectively, don't get involved.
Jamie
S&M Morelia
Active Member
The reason for the letter is to persuade the authorities to take another look at the Keeper's Species List, not the allowing of imported pythons.
I have sent a letter off to help out, as I think if there are a number of species that are native to WA but aren't on licence and are commonly kept in other states, then why the hell can't the keepers in WA keep them either.
The WA system has alot of room for improvement, but at least progress was made to allow the keeping of reptiles.
Cheers.
I have sent a letter off to help out, as I think if there are a number of species that are native to WA but aren't on licence and are commonly kept in other states, then why the hell can't the keepers in WA keep them either.
The WA system has alot of room for improvement, but at least progress was made to allow the keeping of reptiles.
Cheers.
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Firedrake
Well-Known Member
All good, my other workmates are much more open to change
stencorp69
Well-Known Member
The irony of the conservation argument against keeping reptiles is that amateur herpetologists have been the greatest contributor to the knowledge of reptiles in WA and in NSW the knowledge of reptiles has exploded since the keeping was legalized (I'm only speaking for states I've lived in and have knowledge of reptile keeping). Keeping has a huge contribution to the knowledge of reptiles as it increases exposure to their lifecycles and builds positive awareness, it’s not without its short comings but it does have more positives than negatives especially when you look at the numbers kept.
Trouble
Very Well-Known Member
sent for you guys in WA.
good luck
good luck
outbackstorm
Active Member
letter sent
I am going to compile a letter later today. Apart from the obvious, I am also going to strongly point out the person who has been personally blocking any progress in the right direction because of his personal agenda. This individual is not liked by many of his colleagues within the Department and is totally unfit to hold a position where he is capable of embarrassing the Department. I feel that it's a good strategy to clearly point out this source of many problems, if nothing else, it may cause bit of a rift within the circles if it filters though the ranks. The Ministers should know who this inept person is and act on it.
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