Hybrids good or bad?

[Waterrat]

Dude, I just thought the "god " argument was dumb and was trying to illustrate that. You really took it the wrong way and I'm sorry for that.
I find your arguments to be quite persuasive.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, and I will forevermore refer to you by your newly requested title.
Amen.

Pity you didn't see any humor in it Dode.

God

 

[graphitebeans]

Well now I just feel dumb.
*sigh* Thanks God.
:lol:

 

[Kristy_07]

Amazing! Even 12mths ago, the OP would have been shot down in FLAMES, and the thread possibly locked

I'm still kind of sitting on the fence about hybrids: I certainly understand the conservation-oriented view, and the need to keep pure lines and localities etc. But, I'm probably not totally convinced that there can't be a middle ground, and room for both the purists, and the comtemporary RESPONSIBLE breeders producing hybrids, also. Or maybe I'm just being wishy washy and don't want to get shot down, myself :lol:

The amount of hatchies becoming available on the market, I think, is a concern. Common animals are becoming extremely hard to move, and I've heard of plenty of people this year who are releasing coastals and beardy bubs simply because they can't give them away. Okay, so, releasing some coastals into some Brissy scrubland probably isn't the worst thing in the world. But, when the difficulty of selling hatchies spreads to the hybrids breeders, as well, and they are also tempted to release rather than euth or keep until rehoming, then I can see the issues arising. That said, I knew of a crapload of exotics floating around this season, too, so I guess all these problems are kind of inevitable. Unfortunately.

Thanks for the pics, anyway, OP. I'd be keen to see them once they change colour, too.

Love the new nickname Mr. God I think I'll call you Goddles for short, okay?

 

[Waterrat]

Love the new nickname Mr. God I think I'll call you Goddles for short, okay?

Yah, much more appropriate.
Cross-breeding has been happening, is happening and will be happening no matter what anybody says (including the law). It's probably never going to be a big issue because cross-breeding species is not as easy as it sounds and not every breeder would indulge in such. I think the over-breeding of common species with high fecundity is going to a much bigger problem in the near future.
As for releasing to the wild, it's certainly not a recommended by ecologists but considering that about one hatchling in 10 (if that) will survive, the rest will become prey for other animals or die of starvation, no big deal.

Godless

 

[Wally]

Amazing! Even 12mths ago, the OP would have been shot down in FLAMES, and the thread possibly locked

I think people are resigned to the fact it's happening, infractions most likely played their part too.

Still not for me, and my opinion will not change.

Good to see you back Kristy.

 

[Rainbow-Serpent]

I think the hatchie in the photo you posted is a damn good looking little fellow! It'll be interesting to see how he looks as his colour changes

 

[longqi]

Carpondros are different to what most Aussie breeders will be trying for

But look at the pure lines of say Jungles that are being produced now
Spectacular animals without any chance of Neuro
Some of these would be winners at any show anywhere on Earth

Virtually every Jag breeder overseas uses jungles to get the High Yellow effect
Yet we already had the best Jungles by a country mile

Because some idiot smuggled jags into Australia even these magnificent Jungles are being questioned as to the parentage and that is the worst part of all this

 

[Morelia4life]

It is sad that I see Australia becoming just like the United States. Some people think that over here in the U.S. that it is a joke that we can't find pure animals?? Over here in the U.S., people have bred ball pythons to I.J. carpets, ball pythons to womas, ball pythons to burmese pythons, burmese pythons to reticulated pythons, reticulated pythons to ball pythons, ball pythons to blood pythons, king snakes to corn snakes, corn snakes to milk snakes, and so on and so on. If you go to any show, unless it is one of the top breeders of Morelia in the world, the snake you buy will not be a pure Jungle or Coastal. We have people buying carpet pythons and then coming on the forums asking us what kind of carpet python it is and no body knows because it is mixed back and forth so much.

We had someone selling a coastal mix carpet for $1,000 a while back and claiming it was a new morph.... right....

If you guys want hybrids and everything else, that is fine... just be prepared for what is to come. When the amazing jungles start to get crossed with jags and carpondros and this and that and soon you don't know what you have, don't get upset.

kingsnake.com Classifieds: 2009 Striped Carpet Python - Hamilton Line

This is just one ex.. Chris Behof is a very well known Morelia breeder over here and he even thought that this carpet was pure jungle but it isn't.
kingsnake.com Classifieds: 2007 Male Carpall

Another one. A I.J. carpet over here is like $200. A normal ball python is like $20. Breed both together and you get a $3,000 snake?? No. To me, that snake is ugly as hell.

 

[FusionMorelia]

you either roll with progression or it rolls over you,
just like cars,dogs,humans,art and just like anything, a cross or hybrid can and will thrive
but with all some will appear ugly to some so they dont buy it,or talk to it or pet it,
other will however love it and go all out to get it, i guess my point is that there is
and always will be a market for these animals and if you dont like them, dont get one.......

Nato

 

[Waterrat]

If you guys want hybrids and everything else, that is fine... just be prepared for what is to come. When the amazing jungles start to get crossed with jags and carpondros and this and that and soon you don't know what you have, don't get upset.

We already have that situation with GTPs. We call them Biak, Sorong, this and that but the fact is, they were locality cross-bred a long time ago in a South Asian snake farm before they reached our shores and no one knows what they are other that "GTPs."
It would be a great step forward if all the pure locality line breeders (I have no idea how many there are) would identify themselves and advertise their snakes as such. I can see a lot of merit in that. We desperately need to form an association of that kind before it's too late (like in the US).

 

[Bushman]

Well said Longqi and that's a brilliant idea Michael.
We have some of the finest, most fascinating and unique reptiles in the world! Just as they are.
I really don't understand why some people don't realize this!

...
But look at the pure lines of say Jungles that are being produced now
Spectacular animals without any chance of Neuro
Some of these would be winners at any show anywhere on Earth

Virtually every Jag breeder overseas uses jungles to get the High Yellow effect
Yet we already had the best Jungles by a country mile

Because some idiot smuggled jags into Australia even these magnificent Jungles are being questioned as to the parentage and that is the worst part of all this

 

[nervous]

Well said Longqi and that's a brilliant idea Michael.
We have some of the finest, most fascinating and unique reptiles in the world! Just as they are.
I really don't understand why some people don't realize this!

that's your opinion, other people are into different things etc... nobody can force an opinion on you! so for you its pure locality's, for others its the excitement that a morph can bring or the results a hybrid can create. everyone is different!

 

[Waterrat]

that's your opinion, other people are into different things etc... nobody can force an opinion on you! so for you its pure locality's, for others its the excitement that a morph can bring or the results a hybrid can create. everyone is different!

No one is denying it or trying to change the course. What I said, and Bushman agreed, is - in order to protect pure Australian reptiles in captivity, we need to form a specialized group.
If people with other interests, e.g. morphing and cross-breeding want to do the same or not to bother, it's fine with the rest of us. Fair enough?

 

[zuesowns]

I like the look of hybrids, they are really attractive which is why I can see why people like them.

I'd still rather keep a 'plain old' native Australian GTP, just my opinion.

 

[nervous]

No one is denying it or trying to change the course. What I said, and Bushman agreed, is - in order to protect pure Australian reptiles in captivity, we need to form a specialized group.
If people with other interests, e.g. morphing and cross-breeding want to do the same or not to bother, it's fine with the rest of us. Fair enough?

i was referring to this comment by bushman

We have some of the finest, most fascinating and unique reptiles in the world! Just as they are. I really don't understand why some people don't realize this!

 

[pharskie]

Hybrid Haven.net • View topic - 75% GTP X Carpet carpondro

hmmmmmmm, im on the fence also on this one as that yellow and red python on the link i just posted is very nice.

 

[Bushman]

It would be a great step forward if all the pure locality line breeders (I have no idea how many there are) would identify themselves and advertise their snakes as such. I can see a lot of merit in that. We desperately need to form an association of that kind before it's too late (like in the US).

I couldn't agree more Michael. This is long overdue and hopefully it's not too late.
What's that saying..."All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing".

Let's start now! I'm a pure locality line breeder and proud of it.
I've spent the best part of a decade and gone to considerable time and expense sourcing and buying legal, locality pure stock. I'm sure that there's other herpers out there that are passionate about this.
Let's get together and protect what's left of locality pure lines in captivity. Sort of like heritage seed saver associations.

 

[Red-Ink]

No one is denying it or trying to change the course. What I said, and Bushman agreed, is - in order to protect pure Australian reptiles in captivity, we need to form a specialized group.
If people with other interests, e.g. morphing and cross-breeding want to do the same or not to bother, it's fine with the rest of us. Fair enough?

One problem with this idea (and it's a great idea by the way and I would love for it to take off) is the whole reptile keeping attitude towards each other. Just like with hybrids you would get people slagging in some regards and saying "unless you picked that up from the place itself with proof, you can never be sure it's that locale".

 

[Waterrat]

I like the look of hybrids, they are really attractive which is why I can see why people like them.

I'd still rather keep a 'plain old' native Australian GTP, just my opinion.

They are nice, well some of them. I keep some mongrels too and I like the look of the. However, liking the look of a snake is not enough for me, I am interested in their ecology, biology, behaviour, etc., and those mongrels "tell me" nothing of substance or if they do, I can't interpret it because such information would be artificial. That's my stand point and whilst I don't deplore what others do, I feel it's time for separation of interest.

 

[RedEyeGirl]

love hybrids,so many variables to play with especially when you produce carp rondos and jagprondos, can't wait to see them pop up in australia in the years to come,
Jake

Jake be quiet...hybrids are BAD! I told you! In the years to come there will be no way to get a purebred snake...hahaha anyways im in school gotta go!