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Trench

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1.

are jungle jags pure jungles or have they been crossed with a jag,?

2.

does ovulation happans after reptiles mate,?

Cheers :)
 
Jags are Jags. Jungle Jag is a jungle X Jag. Jungle is a jungle.... um... so a Jag X jungle = Jungle jag. a Jag X diamond = Diamond jag.. etc. Apparently Jags over seas are from pure coastals....

Some pure jungles look almost like Jags but don't have the jag genes..
A jag crossed with any other snake should produce jags in half the offspring.

Hope that makes sense.. some one will explain it easier , lol
 
Just to add in, i believe ovulation occurs before mating (but the male can do his thing before this if he is excited i guess) like humans. I may be wrong though.
 
typo

Just to add in, i believe ovulation occurs before mating (but the male can do his thing before this if he is excited i guess) like humans. I may be wrong though.

Yes, you are wrong, very wrong.
 
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Yes, you are wrong, very wrong.

From what this article describes, ovulation happens before copulation.
Written by Doc Rock: Untitled Document
Here is some of the info that suggests that ovulation occurs before copulation:

The growth of the follicles uses a great deal of the female’s reserves and so it
is paramount that she has sufficient condition before the breeding cycle begins.
As the follicles become extended with yolk, the ovaries swell and so the lower
portion of the female’s body swells noticeably. A common error I have seen with inexperienced breeders is that they mistake this swelling for the snake becoming gravid. Because of this misinterpretation they stop putting their male(s) with the female and end up disappointed. Often I hear the explanation that “for some reason she reabsorbed the eggs”. This is not true. There is no definitive scientific evidence anywhere I am aware of that pythons reabsorb eggs. Once the eggs have passed into the oviducts they are beyond the point of no return. No absorptive mechanisms have been found in oviducts. If the eggs are not successfully fertilized, they will eventually be passed as unfertilized ova, or what are commonly called slugs.

Also on the Den Pythons website in the breeding section there are photos of females that are clearly ovulating/swollen while being mated: Black Headed Python-Breeding&Housing

Does that not suggest that ovulation occurs first and some keepers mistake this for being gravid, take their males out and end up with slugs or no eggs at all?
I can only base what i wrote on what i have read on those 2 sites.
I am not a breeder or anything like that so sorry that the info i have read is wrong!
 
If you wait untill the snake has ovulated to mate then you get nothing!

There are 2 stages of swelling in the reproductive cycle of the female, One is follicle development and the other is ovulation.

Follicle development is what a lot mistake for ovulation and withdraw the males at this point thus limiting the chance of
fertility.
 
Ok, an easier way to clarify this is that mating can occur before ovulation but actual fertilisation doesn't occur until ovulation. The female may store the sperm but to ensure the best success i would leave the male in with the female until after ovulation has been observed and proper copulation has been seen as well.
 
ALL mating must take place before ovulation!!
Once the female has ovulated the eggs cant be fertilised its too late!

The female does indeed store sperm from matings prior to this point and uses this sperm to mix with the ovum prior to the point of ovulation!

You really dont have a grasp on the whole cycle and would be well advised not to give information on something you dont understand!
 
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Problem solved *dumb blonde being idiodic*
 
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Because you need to read it again...?

beeman said:
There are 2 stages of swelling in the reproductive cycle of the female, One is follicle development and the other is ovulation.
 
The growth of the follicles uses a great deal of the female’s reserves and so it
is paramount that she has sufficient condition before the breeding cycle begins.
As the follicles become extended with yolk, the ovaries swell and so the lower
portion of the female’s body swells noticeably. A common error I have seen with inexperienced breeders is that they mistake this swelling for the snake becoming gravid. Because of this misinterpretation they stop putting their male(s) with the female and end up disappointed. Often I hear the explanation that “for some reason she reabsorbed the eggs”. This is not true. There is no definitive scientific evidence anywhere I am aware of that pythons reabsorb eggs. Once the eggs have passed into the oviducts they are beyond the point of no return. No absorptive mechanisms have been found in oviducts. If the eggs are not successfully fertilized, they will eventually be passed as unfertilized ova, or what are commonly called slugs.

Also on the Den Pythons website in the breeding section there are photos of females that are clearly ovulating/swollen while being mated: Black Headed Python-Breeding&Housing

Does that not suggest that ovulation occurs first and some keepers mistake this for being gravid, take their males out and end up with slugs or no eggs at all?
I can only base what i wrote on what i have read on those 2 sites.
I am not a breeder or anything like that so sorry that the info i have read is wrong!

the whole section you posted was explaining the growth of the follicles. which is what some breeders mistake for being gravid. the next few paragraphs then go on to explain ovulation etc...
 
hmm im confused as ive allways thought a jag was either a big cat or a car:?
 
I have just read the entire thing again, at least i gave the starter of the thread a helpful (and confusing in that it calls it follicular growth, vitellogenesis, and ovulation which is what throw me off completely, are the first 2 the same thing?) I had follicular development mixed up with ovulation considering ovulation is used so often to describe swelling in females but follicular development is rarely seen to be used when people post mating photos because why would they bother still mating if the female has ovulated.

You learn something new every day i guess, lesson for today is to stop replying and posting in this forum if i don't have an exact and scientific answer for things i guess :? Not everyone can/will understand all the various terms used, including me.
I did however try to make it simple in post #8, i just didn't use the right term for it.

Sorry for being idiodic and un-helpful!

the whole section you posted was explaining the growth of the follicles. which is what some breeders mistake for being gravid. the next few paragraphs then go on to explain ovulation etc...

Thank you for at least not slamming the crap out of me :lol:
*crawls back under rock, doesn't want to try to learn anymore*
 
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Don't worry Em, I didn't read it as you making a concrete statement, rather I read it as you submitting a theory as a partial query, then clarifying at the end that you weren't sure. I wouldn't take anything to heart. Posting the article from Doc Rock would have helped, so just ignore blatant critisicm and take constructive corrections with grace. Personally I love being corrected, I wouldn't learn anything if everyone agreed with me all the time ;)

Oh yeah, and this may help with the Jag question:
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/wanted-buy-44/jaguar-carpet-python-121555/
Check out the first post.
 
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Don't worry Em, I didn't read it as you making a concrete statement, rather I read it as you submitting a theory as a partial query, then clarifying at the end that you weren't sure. I wouldn't take anything to heart. Posting the article from Doc Rock would have helped, so just ignore blatant critisicm and take constructive corrections with grace. Personally I love being corrected, I wouldn't learn anything if everyone agreed with me all the time ;)

Oh yeah, and this may help with the Jag question:
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/wanted-buy-44/jaguar-carpet-python-121555/
Check out the first post.

Hey, thanks heaps :) I never truely write definative answers on here and usually leave myself open to be corrected or for others to give their answers as well.
I would prefer to have someone post after me stating their answer/s and not being rude about it. M
aybe someone needs to make a sticky and delegate that everybody use all the correct terminology including when labelling their photos of their snakes mating etc as 'ovulating' when they are really obviously just producing follicles.
I guess at least i took the time to find the article and hey i learnt heaps :lol: :rolleyes:
I guess i am lucky that i don't plan on breeding anything then hey :lol:

I just wiped a whole heap from my profile because i think i am almost done with all the crap on here finally and it seems to be the same people! But hey 3 months is probably longer than some others last right? I even ditched my avatar etc.
I have a good friend that doesn't seem to mind answering my stupid questions or correcting me politely but i used this forum as a learning tool and i just worry he will get cranky with me for being so stoopid and asking too many questions lol.
 
the jungles jags rpm's here in australia would all be mixed to some extent with either coastals or MD etc All the percentages listed that the jungle jag is x% "pure" jungle is in my personal opinion a marketing tool and really is just a guide an indication of the animal being crossed back to a jungle.

lets face it we like (if we do) the jags/rpm's because of the way they look (colours patterns) and the co-dominant genetic factor makes it easier to produce them and try for certain colours and patterns. If an animal looks great colour and pattern wise does it really matter whether its x% or y% jungle? I've seen 50% jungle jags way better than the higher percentages so to me I couldn't care less what percentage it was as long as its what I wanted.. they will never be pure anyway so striving for that 99% or whatever really means nothing.. Its just a way for people to label an animal and use it to sell it on the premise a higher percentage jungle jag is "better" than one of a lower percentage which doesnt necessarily have to be the case..

I like morphs as well as pure lines and keep both, as they interest me personally but if I had to make a choice of morphs (mixed) over my pure jungles Id choose the pure jungles (black and yellows / black and whites) in a heartbeat because these are the animals I personally like the best .. I find most granites and zebras I've seen pics of ugly and if I'd bred something like that years ago I would have been tempted to give it away rather than keep it. others may disagree but thats my personal opinion. each to their own.. I do like some of the rpm/jags however..

all rpm/jags carry the neuro problem to some degree as well and that needs to be understood. we may start to produce animals that exhibit less of this problem than others (maybe) but it will always be there and could flare up under certain circumstances at any time.. its the sad downside of these animals we have to live with if we choose to keep and breed them.

one thing is certain and thats if we keep and breed these morphs, we need to educate the buyers we sell to about them and educate them to label them correctly (including siblings) so that the ancestary of our animals is as clear as we genuinely know and to maintain these labels as accurately as possible so that they will have as minimal impact on other lines as possible.. Siblings would be the obvious choice (imo) to use with the mixed morphs as they are not pure either.. I would also suggest limiting the breeding of these morphs to the best examples we have rather than pumping them out like a production line. this season will be the first time I've paired up any of these morphs and will be only keeping the best examples for my personal projects and offer a few to friends and people with the same interests.. I probably wont breed them the following year (undecided at this stage) and will breed the holdbacks kept when they're breeding age..

not looking to start any arguments here.. so let's keep this thread friendly please.. I'm just expressing a few personal opinons and thoughts..
 
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