Tribal Carpets

[Jay84]

Are these related to your Jungle's you put up a while ago Jay?
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/unusual-jungle-pics-151930/

* takes another stab in the dark*

Nothing to do with me I also have their mother so these ones are not from her either.

Jag plus the funky incubation = these results. IMO
Last year it was claimed these were natural ? but most died ?
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/unusual-jungle-pics-151930/

NO MYSTERY AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED ....

Yep, most died. I got 2 of them, one with the unusual markings and one with more normal markings. The unusually marked one died

The strange thing with the ones i got were incubated in the same incubator but 2 different tubs. Both tubs were the same (SIM tubs). One half the clutch hatched fine, no issues at all. The second half of the clutch in the other SIM tub came out with unusual markings and were weak, didn't want to feed and all died

 

[solar 17]

A thread like this always amuses me for the number of "key board warriors" that come to the surface genetic warlords, but they all seem to have a couple of points in common, not many posts up, they never sign their name to "their statement" a great use of words that confuse a lot of us and so far as l can see not a lot of information to the herp community in general just a spray of words and then "gone" until the next genetics thread and then what a contrast as we get the "l cant think of a name thread" or my snakes got r.i. how did this happen well 33/23c and in an enclosure "big enough" so it can make up its own mind, someone should post the phone numbers of NASA and the CSIRO so some of these people(ON THIS THREAD) get a position that suits their knowledge base and expertise that alone their IQ.
......solar 17 (baden)

 

[Retic]

Years ago, before the Jags turned up here, I bought a pair of unusually marked carpets which were considered 'Jaggish'. Both were very fussy feeders, both had an odd twitch and eventually both went off their food and finally died.

Yep, most died. I got 2 of them, one with the unusual markings and one with more normal markings. The unusually marked one died

The strange thing with the ones i got were incubated in the same incubator but 2 different tubs. Both tubs were the same (SIM tubs). One half the clutch hatched fine, no issues at all. The second half of the clutch in the other SIM tub came out with unusual markings and were weak, didn't want to feed and all died

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Years ago, before the Jags turned up here, I bought a pair of unusually marked carpets which were considered 'Jaggish'. Both were very fussy feeders, both had an odd twitch and eventually both went off their food and finally died.

Classis symptom's from variable or unstable incubation temperature . Too high or too low or too much variation in temps creates amazing patterns etc but these patterns are not genetically passed on to their offspring .
Unless the same method of incubtion temps are used again.....

 

[Retic]

Spot on

Classis symptom's from variable or unstable incubation temperature . Too high or too low or too much variation in temps creates amazing patterns etc but these patterns are not genetically passed on to their offspring .
Unless the same method of incubtion temps are used again.....

 

[crocodile_dan]

I feel Baden's comment is towards myself, I intentionally omit many posts to many threads, where I do post I feel there is an area of interest worth opening up to further discussion if people wish to discuss it (I don't like/want to contribute anymore than I feel is necessary). I try and keep my post count to a minimum of relevant information, and I have no intention for anyone to know who I am at this point in time!
Cheers Daniel

 

[The Devil]

The talk of incubation temp has I guess gotten a bit off topic and I'm going to continue in the vain, apologies to the moderators.

A couple of years ago I hatched some jungles at incubation temps of between 26.5C and 27.5C. I did it just to see if they would hatch at that temp and what would eventuate.

The best looking 1 ( pic attached) ended up with Roger and yes I did tell Roger how she had been incubated. This jungle is now with Barra.

Now other than the crazy head pattern she has very similar body pattern and colouring of her mother..
If I remember correctly I hatched 8 out of 9 eggs and although at first I thought they looked a bit different to the other eggs out of my normal incubator when compared age for age they were all very similar to the others.

It was suggested to me at the time that the patterns and colours are part of their genetic make-up and the chances of changing the genetics via temps would be extremely low.
I think it was a case of that out of every clutch there seems to be 1 or 2 stunner's and these just happened to be the ones out of the cool cooker.

I'm doing it again this season but this time I'm going WAY down with the temps and well attempt to keep better records.

Now back on topic.

The easiest way to disprove the jag thought would be to post a pic of all 20 in the same tub.
Looking forward to seeing more pics as they shed ect.

 

[longqi]

The easiest way to disprove the jag though would be to post a pic of all 20 in the same tub.
Looking forward to seeing more pics as they shed ect.

That is a very wise and simple thing that would dispel any doubts as to the parentage

 

[Waterrat]

The easiest way to disprove the jag thought would be to post a pic of all 20 in the same tub.

That is a very wise and simple thing that would dispel any doubts as to the parentage

But it ain't coming. Is it?

 

[Herpaderpa]

Don't really want to increase any debate on the matter but thought I should put out a point regarding purists that those who are emotionally invested seem to commonly miss.

I am not on either side... I see both the value of pure locality lines and the creation of pretty designer pets for the pet trade.

I get the point of the purist and considering they normally charge a fraction of what designer breeders charge... I really don't think they do it for the money.
Though those fanatics who are only interested in money in their designers most likely can't see past their own greed and can not understand the concept of conservation. Not that I have ever heard of many who are that fanatic, but there is the odd one rabidly defending their 'designers'.

A few years ago, a small species of fish which was declared extinct in the wild was discovered in the collection of someone who had been keeping them in large numbers (illegally) for some time.
Now with the rate at which humans are screwing over their environment, I certainly do see a strong point for the purists to maintain pure locality lines. Who knows when they will be all that exists of their kind, in the wild and captivity?

Having a foot in each side I can see how illogical the debate from the non-purists is. Sorry, but I really do think purists have a point and those 'designer fanatics' against purists don't have a point at all... they just try to aggressively defend their position.

Again... having said all this... I know in QLD the supposed intention for keeping reptiles is for conservation and education purposes. Says so right in the paperwork you fill out to get your license. Read what you like into it, they generally encourage the breeding and keeping of pure animals. I can only assume that other states are the same. Making the designer fanatics argument even more baseless.

I would keep a pretty looking designer and hope to be breeding some albinos soon... I don't see why designer breeders can't get over the purists stance... seriously, it's illogical to have anything against the purists. I'm glad there are purists trying to preserve localities etc. I would pay as much, if not more, for a lovely looking genuine locality as I would for a lovely looking designer.

Sorry that this thread got hijacked D3pro...

The easiest way to disprove the jag thought would be to post a pic of all 20 in the same tub.

But it ain't coming. Is it?

I don't understand why anyone would make an announcement about a possible new morph and then only give out little bits of info that just end up making people speculate and discard the idea of the morph straight up due to heated debate over possible issues. Its only going to hurt them and the morph more... the fact that some knowledgeable people have put out there that this is likely an incubation issue will probably turn a lot of people away from this immediately. That there wasn't a clear cut answer as to whether jag is behind these snakes as well is unsettling. The idea is beginning to sour

 

[Waterrat]

"Someone I know hatched these out this year. These very weird carpets are incredibly unique.
The whole clutch turned out like this, so it's most likely a new genetic trait.

These are in Australia. And thats all the info I can put out... speculate away "

I can't see where purist vs designers came into it .... but it did, it usually does. The suggestion (above) that it's most likely a new genetic trait is the core of the debate and needs some explaining from the the OP. The simple question is - do they carry the jag gene or not? If the breeder's records are so poor that he/she can't figure out the lineage of the parents, than how can this product hold any integrity? It seems that this "new genetic line" will suffer the same problems purists have with their locality specific animals. Has the time come to start believing in pedigrees or is it already too late?

 

[RHCP1]

A thread like this always amuses me for the number of "key board warriors" that come to the surface genetic warlords, but they all seem to have a couple of points in common, not many posts up, they never sign their name to "their statement" a great use of words that confuse a lot of us and so far as l can see not a lot of information to the herp community in general just a spray of words and then "gone" until the next genetics thread and then what a contrast as we get the "l cant think of a name thread" or my snakes got r.i. how did this happen well 33/23c and in an enclosure "big enough" so it can make up its own mind, someone should post the phone numbers of NASA and the CSIRO so some of these people(ON THIS THREAD) get a position that suits their knowledge base and expertise that alone their IQ.
......solar 17 (baden)

have to agree with solar71 on this. it is too easy to sit at a computer and do little other than criticise other and contribute little to the discussion or hobby.

If as others have suggested these turn out to be jags it will be disappointing and a bit sad that again someone has used the net to ****stir.

I like the suggestion of a single pic of all the babies in a tub. That should end the jag part of the debate.


Could this be a record, 24 hours for this post, 7500 hits and 180 replies...amazing

 

[D3pro]

These are the last images I was sent.
Sadly 5 died. The breeder made a mistake from the excitement and paid the price.
Three more are still in the egg.

On a personal note:

I am not placing any claims on these animals. They are not mine. I am doing a favour from a member on here who doesn't want the attention.
Do not direct your questions at me. Do not send me PM's. Do not call me. (Unless your a mate, then go ahead)

How jags, smuggling and hybrids got into the equation baffles me. The're just some snakes that look nice.
Enjoy.

 

[Waterrat]

D3pro, how are your burned fingers healing? LOL

 

[Kyro]

They are really strange looking & I don't mean the patterns, I mean the shape of them. They look like they are swollen or something?

 

[ryanm]

Sadly 5 died. The breeder made a mistake from the excitement and paid the price.

What caused the 5 to die?

 

[Ned_fisch]

In the photo of the five that died, why is it that parts of the pythons bodies are not touching the object they are placed on? Also the blurred appearance of the pythons? It may just be that it looks that way, or that im on my mobile phone, but to be honest, it makes me feel that the pictures are photo shopped.

 

[D3pro]

Michael you know I'm titanium

What caused the 5 to die?

This was what I was told:

--------
Sometime when he pips the bigger snakes of a clutch it triggers the smaller ones to come out before they are ready.
Those 5 didn't absorb the yolk and so they did not survive.

He also said that to keep the thread as civil as possible. He's happy to share the images to those who are interested but won't if there is all this hostility.
--------

Ned-fish... no.

 

[Sezzzzzzzzz]

In the photo of the five that died, why is it that parts of the pythons bodies are not touching the object they are placed on? Also the blurred appearance of the pythons? It may just be that it looks that way, or that im on my mobile phone, but to be honest, it makes me feel that the pictures are photo shopped.

i would assume that some sort of rigor had set in by the time the pic was taken?

 

[AndrewHenderson]

In the photo of the five that died, why is it that parts of the pythons bodies are not touching the object they are placed on? Also the blurred appearance of the pythons? It may just be that it looks that way, or that im on my mobile phone, but to be honest, it makes me feel that the pictures are photo shopped.

Probably A) pulled out the freezer to take a photo or B) rigamortis