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I was most definitely on the 'old school' thought pattern
But after reading this informative thread I have to admit I am rethinking things

Really interesting thread
 
Just one more point as there appears to be an inference in this thread personally "l never" remove any hatching from the egg.
but as l previously stated l do cut a "small v" in the highest point of the rest of the eggs after the 1st. has pipped and personally l don't see any down side to this proceedure but obviously there are several points of view.
.........solar 17 (baden)
 
I pip all eggs within 12 hours after the first head is out. I would never remove a hatchy from the egg and I've had hatchies remain in the egg for days after pipping, I've never had any hatchies carrying around egg yolk- it would appear that they come out when they are ready and not a moment sooner.
That said I had an interesting case this year where one hatchy seemed to prolapse it's abdomen. I'm guessing it hadn't fully healed over and when it was roaming around in it's tub the wound re-opened. It seemed to loose a lot of yolk like material but was fine. Bit of a scare though.
 
don't bother piping anymore. They'll come out when they want too, and if they cant on their own then it just wasn't meant to be
 
I handle the eggs to move them to a hatching container (I incubate over water) after the first has pipped. When that first one has it's head out, I slit the rest, but do this while they are sitting on the substrate and just make a little slit. A few used this slit, but others prefer to make one or more slits on their own before emerging.
 
One point l feel has been missed is what about the neonates that are strong apart from a dislodged or deformed egg tooth, l have seen "well formed" robust hatchies suffocate and die through not be able to emerge from their egg.
l tried for a couple of seasons a good while back pipping on temp. rise for no apparent gain, these days l think like as slimbo said l cut a " small" v in the highest part of the egg of the rest after the 1st. one pips and for me l reckon l will stick with this method.
People on this thread can say about it not being natural but can these herpers point out what is "natural" in our hobbie, plus l personally feel sick in the stomach to see a drowned fully formed hatchie but alas has a dislodged or deformed egg tooth which falls away within 24 hours of hatching....but at the end of the day everybody has a point of view.
..........solar 17 (baden)


Agree 100%
 
don't bother piping anymore. They'll come out when they want too, and if they cant on their own then it just wasn't meant to be

Imagine having a clutch of 20 GTP eggs and all of them die inside the eggs on the 12th hour because they couldn't get out. They were all red and one albino amongst the. "it just wasn't meant to be"? LOL
 
Imagine having a clutch of 20 GTP eggs and all of them die inside the eggs on the 12th hour because they couldn't get out. They were all red and one albino amongst the. "it just wasn't meant to be"? LOL

in reality how many undeformed snakes have you had that didn't hatch once the eggs were full term. My experience (limited to 83 clutches of morelia and antaresia) is that the ones that don't hatch were screwed to begin with.
 
I always cut a small window either at ascertain date or when the first egg pips, I have never lost a snake in the egg that was fully formed. To me personally there are only advantages and if done properly no disadvantages.
 
in reality how many undeformed snakes have you had that didn't hatch once the eggs were full term. My experience (limited to 83 clutches of morelia and antaresia) is that the ones that don't hatch were screwed to begin with.

I haven had any (touch wood) but a friend of mine lost a whole clutch like that. The neonates looked all good, there was no sign of morphological abnormalities, small size or anything that would indicate that they wouldn't be perfectly healthy snakes. The egg shells were more rigid than usual that that may have been the cause of the disaster.
 
No-two, Rico Walder addressed this issue of premature piping at his last talk and he elaborated about possible introduction on bacteria if the eggs are "open" for too long before the neonates come out. He illustrated real cases. It may not have happened to you as yet but it may happen sometimes. I don't see any justifiable reason for piping eggs a week before hatching.

I think you're takeing what I'm saying the wrong way. I don't pip eggs for about 24hours after the first one has piped. I have piped them on a certain day in the past and the eggs have gone another week before coming out, I think the whole theory of saying you can cause them to hatch prematuerly is a load. I don't think piping them is sending them fasle signals to hatch, otherwise just handling them would be enough, without cutting them.
 
I think the whole theory of saying you can cause them to hatch prematuerly is a load. I don't think piping them is sending them fasle signals to hatch, otherwise just handling them would be enough, without cutting them.


I thing your theory holds as much water as mine. I am going by my own experiences but those are only observations, not results of a study. You don't handle eggs once in the incubator, do you?
Why do some neonates come out of their eggs dragging unabsorbed egg yolk attached to them?
 
I always cut a small window either at ascertain date or when the first egg pips, I have never lost a snake in the egg that was fully formed. To me personally there are only advantages and if done properly no disadvantages.

Piping must allow some weaker individuals to survive and I imagine may increase the need for piping in future generations. Which I would consider a disadvantage. In saying that I have nothing against people piping.
 
Not necessarily, a neonate may just lack an egg tooth for example which doesn't make it weaker or as has been stated already eggs may be over calcified which may stop the snake from hatching, again it doesn't mean the snake is weak.
 
Not necessarily, a neonate may just lack an egg tooth for example which doesn't make it weaker or as has been stated already eggs may be over calcified which may stop the snake from hatching, again it doesn't mean the snake is weak.

Very true, but the possibility also exsists that the lack of an egg tooth is genetic and will be passed on to future generations. Of course this won't be the answer all the time but the possibility still exsists.
 
Very true, but the possibility also exsists that the lack of an egg tooth is genetic and will be passed on to future generations. Of course this won't be the answer all the time but the possibility still exsists.

I don't disagree with you but evolution is a long and slow process. They're not going to loos the egg tooth in few generations. The egg tooth is their survival tool, probably the most important part of their anatomy without which they would go extinct very quickly.
 
I don't disagree with you but evolution is a long and slow process. They're not going to loos the egg tooth in few generations. The egg tooth is their survival tool, probably the most important part of their anatomy without which they would go extinct very quickly.

I agree, but take that selection pressure away and it can come about very quickly, especially if there are already recessive alleles for such a condition in the captive population.

Once again I'm not saying don't pip, I just personally wouldn't for your average snake clutch but that's just me. I would take the same attitude towards really bad feeders.

In saying that if I had a brand new morph I would take a different tune. :)
 
Not necessarily, a neonate may just lack an egg tooth for example which doesn't make it weaker or as has been stated already eggs may be over calcified which may stop the snake from hatching, again it doesn't mean the snake is weak.

A snake in an egg without a egg tooth is weak, had it been in the wild it would of not even made it to first base.
 
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