I felt like I was in a movie...

[Sezzzzzzzzz]

Frozen/Thawed[FONT=Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif]First thaw the food. I prefer to let it sit in the snake room pre-scent it. Some people like to put it in warm water in a ziplock bag to speed up the process. Never use a microwave or any other method that could cook it.[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif]When the food has thawed you can either present it to the snake using tongs or throw it into the snakes tank and leave it be. You might need to experiment with what works for you. My snakes take it either way but sometimes I don’t have the time to sit there with the tongs for 30 minutes while one of them decideds if she wants to eat or not.[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif]source: [/FONT]Feeding your pet snake — Pet-Snakes.com

Another ignorant place that says do not COOK the food

 

[slim6y]

I like this conversation already - it has some good science in it, and some great speculation.

I'm no chemist, so I won't make suggestions about proteins in a rat and what could occur if boiling water was added.

So - I'll tell you what I do know (without google).

You can't 'kill' protein. You can change its form quite dramatically. As humans (and many other animals) do not make their own proteins, they get all their protein from other living (or ex living) tissue.

A rat is a considerable protein source - as all its protein comes from the food it eats and so on. Protein is in ALL living tissue (plant, animal, fungi etc).

Cooking protein does change the outcome of the protein - eggs are the best example, because you can actually see the outcome of changed protein. Clear whites to when the proteins are ripped through cooking causing the whites to turn.... Well.... White.... But, it doesn't mean the protein is any less healthy for you to eat. In some cases (take dogs for instance) cooking the egg white is healthier than feeding it raw!!!

I can't go into too many details, like I say, I'm no chemist. But I can't see why 100'C water (which will cool rapidly anyway) would cause any more issues for a snake.

I certainly don't recommend it - and would strongly suggest hot tap water and the ziplock bag (water still gets in, but personally, the sink I use needs to be free of rat faeces and blood matter).

I think your story is funny. But... At the same, I think it's a good idea to use water to get the rat to around 35 - 38'C at a reasonable speed, rather than a fast speed.

As for brittle bones - I think that occurs when you cook for much longer. This is why you should never feed a dog cooked bones (sorry to use the dog analogy again). But 100'C for a few minutes (cooling rapidly) would not cause rat bones to be brittle. And even if they were, the snake eats the rat whole and does not chew on bones. It is very unlikely that a snake would get a bone stuck in its throat because it snapped in its mouth.

I maybe speculating, or stirring... Who knows...?

 

[kawasakirider]

I don't see the part where the OP states that he whacks the pot on the stove and makes a rat braise....

Granted, I wouldn't put the rats in boiling water, but if the water is put into a cup it loses heat very quickly, definitely not enough to "cook" the rat. I know because I've done this at various times when I've been in a rush (flame me). Usually I just run the hot tap and let the rats sit in a zip lock bag.

I've noticed certain people in particular who would still be considered newbs to the hobby passing on "advice" to others as if they know it all, most of the time this "advice" is something a knowledgeable member has posted kindly to aid the OP, but for one reason or another the 12 month old keepers decide to spit the information out again in a rude way without anything to back it up, be it personal experience or a reliable source of their own.

It's like someone who has never rebuilt a bike but has watched american chopper a few times deciding to criticise someone on the way they rebuild their top end.

OP, take the advice people are giving you (some of it in this thread is really good and there's usually someone in the know who can help you in a manner that doesn't boost their E-ego). However, disregard the stuff that someone is hurling at you with attitude.

 

[JrFear]

geese people the guy was just telling us his story, im sure he knows that if heating the rat that way to make sure its not so hot he burns him self! and did he not mention he usually defrosts them under heat lights?

 

[Wally]

It had an explosion........ feisty hungry snake........... dry retching........... kept me entertained

 

[Jk888]

Snake Food

Mouse / Rat placed in a 600ml-1litre bottle or tub of water
(65-75 degrees ) standard tap water is fine
leave for 5-15 minnuites deppending on how frozen / size of mouse/ rat
=
defrosted food ready for consumption

(Cooking times may vairy parental supervision is requite for children under the age of 8 )

8)

 

[maddog-1979]

i liked the part where the motorbike jumped into the helicopter........oh wait , different movie...... my bad

 

[Wookie]

I like this conversation already - it has some good science in it, and some great speculation.

I'm no chemist, so I won't make suggestions about proteins in a rat and what could occur if boiling water was added.

So - I'll tell you what I do know (without google).

You can't 'kill' protein. You can change its form quite dramatically. As humans (and many other animals) do not make their own proteins, they get all their protein from other living (or ex living) tissue.

A rat is a considerable protein source - as all its protein comes from the food it eats and so on. Protein is in ALL living tissue (plant, animal, fungi etc).

Cooking protein does change the outcome of the protein - eggs are the best example, because you can actually see the outcome of changed protein. Clear whites to when the proteins are ripped through cooking causing the whites to turn.... Well.... White.... But, it doesn't mean the protein is any less healthy for you to eat. In some cases (take dogs for instance) cooking the egg white is healthier than feeding it raw!!!

I can't go into too many details, like I say, I'm no chemist. But I can't see why 100'C water (which will cool rapidly anyway) would cause any more issues for a snake.

I certainly don't recommend it - and would strongly suggest hot tap water and the ziplock bag (water still gets in, but personally, the sink I use needs to be free of rat faeces and blood matter).

I think your story is funny. But... At the same, I think it's a good idea to use water to get the rat to around 35 - 38'C at a reasonable speed, rather than a fast speed.

As for brittle bones - I think that occurs when you cook for much longer. This is why you should never feed a dog cooked bones (sorry to use the dog analogy again). But 100'C for a few minutes (cooling rapidly) would not cause rat bones to be brittle. And even if they were, the snake eats the rat whole and does not chew on bones. It is very unlikely that a snake would get a bone stuck in its throat because it snapped in its mouth.

I maybe speculating, or stirring... Who knows...?

What you say is true, definitely.

I'm not sure exactly which proteases snakes have at their disposal but I think you can safely draw conclusions that they do possess enzymes capable of digesting proteins. Enzymes are very specific and only act on certain substrates (proteins/AA sequences) so though the proteins aren't destroyed they may essentially become indigestible which obviously is undesirable. I might look into the digestive tract of a snake when I get some time off work.

You have me interested now :lol: !

 

[PythonLegs]

I don't really want to get into a physics debate, so I'll go over a couple points for anyone who'se anti-google. Cooked protein is also referred to 'denatured' protein. Denaturing is a process where the cell structure changes rapidly, in this case in response to heat- not knowing when your rat changes from warm to boiled. The protein strands change on a molecular level, 'unfolding' themselves and realigning in radnom ways- this changes not only the solubility of the substance, atrophying it, but on a intra-cellular level, the unfolding of the protein exposes the buried non-polar amino acid residues. Harmful to a snake? I don't know. Giving my snake an enema or making it wear a bieber wig might not be harmful either, but I don't see any reason to take the risk and find out. And when you're being given perfectly reasonable advice to avoid it in the first place, you'r no longer uninformed, you're just ignorant.

Might also want to have a look at how trichinosis worms work, and how quickly salmonella multiplies in nice warm rat ploppys.

See, this is why I just should never ever get even slightly serious on here.

 

[Darlyn]

Well knock me down with a feather Heather. What do you do for a crust PythonLegs.
I love the "solubility" word that was invigorating : )

 

[damo77]

I don't know. Giving my snake an enema or making it wear a bieber wig might not be harmful either, but I don't see any reason to take the risk and find out..

Best thing I have read all day

 

[Black.Rabbit]

Best thing I have read all day

Yeap... That's definitely becoming someone's signature at some point lol lol

 

[Reptilefreak95]

hellz yea hahahaha

 

[Selenotypus]

how the hell would you know that the rats bones arent brittle??? Did you also chew it for your snake first??

You are definately one of the people on here that my signature applies to.... How am i the one that is ignorant when you are the tool that has decided that he knows better than centuries of snakes and decades of snake keepers?

Do what you want its your snake. Dont come whinging on here when your snake gets sick again.

and defrosting in high heat does cook... but meh, whatever...

You're saying putting a totally frozen rat in boiling water will cook it? The water cools quite fast.

We know BHPs need to be weaned on to rats. I do wonder sometimes how good rats are for them as there is much more fat in a rat than there is in a reptile. I don't pretend to know what I can't. I do make basic assumptions, however they are based on evidence even if it only loosely. I don't consider myself ignorant at all as I always want to learn. This is not something I do often at all, if fact it's very rare. I usually do the zip lock bag or in a paper bag under heat lights. As far as my basic school chemistry goes, I know protein won't leave the body, I think someone has already stated it. I'm not here to look good, I'm just like all of you, I do make mistakes, if I have made one, I honestly would love nothing more than to be corrected. I don't see the point in attitude though, we all love our pets, no one here wants to hurt them. So to anyone who can't be civil please don't post.

This post was supposed to be something amusing for everyone. I hope this becomes a good thread to read, rather than a waste.

Cheers Tom

I'm going to ring the vet today (he's a herp). I will ask him what he knows about it. If anyone knows it's someone who has studied reps

 

[slim6y]

I doubt that a rat will be cooked in water that was poured in at under 100'C. I do not know at what temperature proteins in the rat become denatured. I do not know at what temperature the proteins could (and that's a very big 'if') become insoluble.

All I know is - the safe and proven way to heat rats. And I think we all know that that's the answer here.

But - I still liked your story and would have liked to have seen it happen to have a good laugh. Maybe a rat intestine fight....

 

[PythonLegs]

What do you do for a crust PythonLegs.

2 cups all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon salt
1/2 cup vegetable oil
1/4 cup milk

1. Combine flour and salt together in a large mixing bowl; set aside.
2. In a separate bowl, mix oil and milk together; add oil mixture to flour mixture and blend with a fork.
3. Divide into 4 portions, wrap each portion in plastic wrap and refrigerate until ready to use.

Makes 2 pie crusts.

 

[atothej09]

HAHAHAHAHA
Funniest thing I have heard in a long time.

 

[CamdeJong]

I've noticed certain people in particular who would still be considered newbs to the hobby passing on "advice" to others as if they know it all, most of the time this "advice" is something a knowledgeable member has posted kindly to aid the OP, but for one reason or another the 12 month old keepers decide to spit the information out again in a rude way without anything to back it up, be it personal experience or a reliable source of their own.

I've seen plenty of that as well, it's to be expected when most people are anonymous. Just watch out when saying it ambiguously so as to avoid people thinking you're referring to them.

 

[Wookie]

I've noticed certain people in particular who would still be considered newbs to the hobby passing on "advice" to others as if they know it all, most of the time this "advice" is something a knowledgeable member has posted kindly to aid the OP, but for one reason or another the 12 month old keepers decide to spit the information out again in a rude way without anything to back it up, be it personal experience or a reliable source of their own.

Sorry, I have to bite :lol: . They'd be a bloody prodigy if they're on here giving advice at 12 months of age . Yeah, it is good that people are listening and learning though I think some people (nobody specifically so no offence intended) are just not suited to teaching. It is good OP has acknowledged the helpful information and it made for an interesting discussion if nothing else.