Child denied life saving surgery because she has brain damaged

[Defective]

I know at least 7 people who have been riding motorcycles for between 20-40 years. Don't count on us being your organ donors, it doesn't always end badly... in fact horse riding is at least 10 times more dangerous than riding a motorcycle

what do hospital staff call people who ride motor cycles??
Donor cycles!!! LOL ER season 1 joke by a bikie that came in with a busted leg

 

[Fuscus]

what do hospital staff call people who ride motor cycles??

up here medical workers refer to them as voluntarily organ donors

 

[Fantazmic]

and now for some black humour to lighten the mood.......think John Cleese

'can we have your liver' and 'is this because he's got one of those silly cards'

Monty Python Meaning of life..............

 

[Snakewoman]

what do hospital staff call people who ride motor cycles??
Donor cycles!!! LOL ER season 1 joke by a bikie that came in with a busted leg

up here medical workers refer to them as voluntarily organ donors

People in the medical field should be more careful about making a joke out of motorcyclists who die, every time I've seen a show about organ transplants and donations they've shown very thankful people and beg others to consider donating their organs when they die. Knowing that some of them make a joke about who those people are makes me feel sick.

Many fatalities can be avoided, in an Queensland accident research and road safety fact sheet it was found that most deaths were due to illegal behaviour. Most of the fatalities were due to speed, others were due to using illegal manoeuvres or being under the influence of drugs/alcohol. The remainder of the fatalities were due to rider inattention.

10% of the riders weren't wearing helmets, and 20% were wearing helmets that didn't fit them correctly. The fact sheet also states that 20% of all bikers killed didn't have a valid license.

http://www.carrsq.qut.edu.au/publications/corporate/motorcycle_safety_fs.pdf

There are far less fatalities when it comes to riders who don't do stupid things.

I've posted about a family friend that I lost last year because of his desire to speed on his motorcycle, I mentioned him again in thread I put up recently. His organs were donated and the anniversary of his death is on the 28th of this month which isn't far away. I don't find anything funny about that AT ALL. Please THINK before you post or make jokes about this sort of thing.

 

[Trouble]

Tahlia, it will be hard at the end of this month. I'm sure his donor family are recipients are very very thankful for the gift he gave! I wish there were more people like him.
There's nothing funny about death or organ donation. My family & I joke around a little about it saying how easy it would be if we could just 'borrow' someone elses lungs for the day, or they'll do the txplant op themselves :shock::lol: but in the end, it really is a serious matter and to have to go through it, whichever end you may be at, is a very difficult time. It's the last thing I would wish apon anyone.

 

[Recharge]

Tahlia, I'm sorry you're feeling a little affronted and offended, but you have to remember, nurses and doctors are faced day in and day out with people doing thoroughly stupid things, not to mention, you develop a macabre sense of humour as a way of dealing with seeing horrible things every single day, it's a defence mechanism.

these people see the frailness of life and are confronted by mortality every day, so of course they joke in a different way, because it reflects the inner turmoil their souls constantly deal with, and well, with a lot of jokes, not every one laughs, and just because it upsets you, doesn't give you the right to demand they stop, in the same way no one should demand it of you if they find your humour appalling, humour is a very personal thing.

 

[Snakewoman]

I agree Recharge, but I didn't demand that they stop telling those jokes, I said they should be more. I think jokes like that are best shared among people they know well, saying that in front of someone they didn't know could end in a very awkward situation. I have a friend who works at the Geelong hospital and I hope nobody tells a joke like that in front of her since her fiancee has been riding for about 7 months now. Awkward....

 

[veenarm]

I've been an organ donor on my licence since I was 17....
I'm dead, I don't need my organs anymore and If they can save even 1 persons life after death it means I did at least something useful in my life (albeit after death)
I did go through a stage in Primary School where I wanted to be mummified like the egyptians but then realised that was a waste of space!

I also donate my precious A+ blood every time the blood bus is around (16week??)...

It's not unethical to make judgement decisions based on the supporting facts and history of transplants. If they judge that the child would not survive or take full effect of an organ then that is there decision. Please remember it's not that long ago we didnt even have transplants and everyone with any kind of condition isolated to organ failure would of just been considered lost and taken from us early...

Life expectency is up 30+ years in many cases just from how we now live...

Motorcycles are dangerous if in an accident, yes - but there are more car/road fatalities than cycle each year and more than 1 person inside a car most times..

*Shoot, just checked my licence and it doesnt say it on it.. I changes state (do i have to do it agian?

 

[KaotikJezta]

I think everyone agreeing with the doctor is giving him way too much credit, this is America where the eugenics programme (compulsory sterilisation) did not end until the 70's. I think his position was based much more on the perceived worth of the girls life than any medical consideration. The fact that he used derogatory and antiquated language to describe her pretty much spells it out.

 

[Mayo]

Tahlia I've been riding my coffin on wheels for 13 years now and as a rider have no problem with people making jokes about it. My father is paramedic and I garentee you the medical profession make more jokes about motorbike riders than anyone. We all no the risks and accept them, accepting we are also the butt of every organ donar joke just goes with it.

 

[Trouble]

Motorcycles are dangerous if in an accident, yes - but there are more car/road fatalities than cycle each year and more than 1 person inside a car most times..

*Shoot, just checked my licence and it doesnt say it on it.. I changes state (do i have to do it agian?

Most of the time though, people that die in traffic accidents cannot donate, as they are usually 'squished' (for a lack of a better word) or lose too much blood & the organs are not viable. (That's what I've been told anyway)

and re: organ donation on your licence. They don't put it on the licences anymore, you have to sign up on the organ donor register > https://www2.medicareaustralia.gov.au/pext/registerAodr/Pages/DonorRegistration.jsp < and still tell your family members your wish, as it is their final say (if you do happen to have an accident)

 

[Fuscus]

People in the medical field should be more careful about making a joke out of motorcyclists who die...

It isn't a joke, that's what they call them and they call them that for good reason. Or, as a doctor said to me at a dinner "I haven't had to treat a person whose 4WD went into the side of a bike".
Despite all the protests and submissions by bike gangs, the motorbike is an inherently dangerous machine, a minor prang that would be an annoyance to a car driver can be a long hospital stay or a dirt nap to a rider.

The single study you submitted comparing bikes to horses can only be regarded as a red herring, and totally irrelevant, a better study would be comparing cars to bikes. And guess what? Motorcycle crash data ( there a MANY more links in the unlikely event you are interested). Also have a read of the Motorcycle safety - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Its an eye opener

And on a final note, there is one overriding reason that most people by a powerful bike - it isn't to take the kids to school, it's because it's fun. However it is even more fun if you go faster. Unless you use a lamp post as an emergency brake. That's not fun.

 

[miley_take]

Most of the time though, people that die in traffic accidents cannot donate, as they are usually 'squished' (for a lack of a better word) or lose too much blood & the organs are not viable. (That's what I've been told anyway)

and re: organ donation on your licence. They don't put it on the licences anymore, you have to sign up on the organ donor register > https://www2.medicareaustralia.gov.au/pext/registerAodr/Pages/DonorRegistration.jsp < and still tell your family members your wish, as it is their final say (if you do happen to have an accident)

I just did! Thinking of you Tam! If something happens to me, I don't want possibly healthy organs going to waste if someone else can use them. I'm certainly not going to use them when I'm dead!

 

[Snakewoman]

Tahlia I've been riding my coffin on wheels for 13 years now and as a rider have no problem with people making jokes about it. My father is paramedic and I garentee you the medical profession make more jokes about motorbike riders than anyone. We all no the risks and accept them, accepting we are also the butt of every organ donar joke just goes with it.

Thirteen years is good, you must be doing something right I'm sure I'll get over it, I'm still just working through my friend's death. I'm more sensitive than usual at the moment, probably because the first anniversary of his death is very close. I'm a bit concerned about his wife which I think is another reason I'm more agitated than usual.

Despite all the protests and submissions by bike gangs, the motorbike is an inherently dangerous machine, a minor prang that would be an annoyance to a car driver can be a long hospital stay or a dirt nap to a rider.

I never tried to claim bikes weren't dangerous, and not all groups of motorcyclists are "gangs", it's an unfortunate label that gets attached to many groups of bikers... if anyone tells me the Ulysses club is a gang I'll probably laugh. I go and see them almost every Saturday and most of them are at least 50 and very polite.

The single study you submitted comparing bikes to horses can only be regarded as a red herring, and totally irrelevant, a better study would be comparing cars to bikes. And guess what? Motorcycle crash data ( there a MANY more links in the unlikely event you are interested). Also have a read of the Motorcycle safety - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Its an eye opener

I actually posted two studies, please refer back to post #24 for the other.

I've seen the studies you put up, (I have quite a lot of information on my computer about all sorts of things to do with bikes, I like to do my homework properly)the major problem I have some studies is that they don't really do a great job of explaining why accidents occurred which frustrates me. You can't avoid all accidents, but there are things that go wrong that could be avoided in the future if you know what went wrong in other accidents. I put the study up about horse riding compared to motorcycling to show that there are more dangerous things than riding a bike, but horse riding doesn't have the same stigma attached to it and people don't get called temporary Australians or organ donors because they ride a horse. When I've spoken to parents many of them don't seem to have any problem with their child riding a horse but they freak out about their kid riding a bike.

And on a final note, there is one overriding reason that most people by a powerful bike - it isn't to take the kids to school, it's because it's fun. However it is even more fun if you go faster. Unless you use a lamp post as an emergency brake. That's not fun.

I'm well aware that people buy big bikes because they're more fun in many people's eyes, and I personally don't like the idea of people being able to buy 600cc bikes on their learners, some people may be responsible with them, but a lot won't and I personally think it's asking for trouble. One particular study states that fatality rates are higher in those who ride sport and super sport bikes than those who ride cruisers, standards, tourers and sport tourers. I'm not surprised about that unfortunately. Plus, speeding and being under the influence of alcohol is a very common reason for deaths which is indicated in a previous study I posted plus this one:

Q&A: Motorcycles &mdash; general

As I said in a previous post I just think people need to be more careful about who they tell certain jokes to, but I'll probably get over it

 

[Renenet]

I've seen the studies you put up, (I have quite a lot of information on my computer about all sorts of things to do with bikes, I like to do my homework properly)the major problem I have some studies is that they don't really do a great job of explaining why accidents occurred which frustrates me.

Same, Tahlia. I really, really wish they'd list a cause of accident.

 

[varanophile]

As many have pointed out, difficult topic, and always one that has the ability to polarize people.

Whilst the article provides a very sad story, it obviously does not give both sides. Without knowing the full picture it is difficult to comment on the right or wrongs. It is understandable for any parent to not want to give up on their children, and something I wish no one had to go through. It is also natural and expected human emotion to look for blame in cases such as this one, or as another example when a child develops Autism. Unfortunately due the emotions involved the blame is often misdirected.

Whilst I do have to make decisions on withdrawing treatment from patients, I am so glad that this only ever very rarely involves children. When the decision does involve children it is usually in the context of a resuscitation attempt, and for those involved it is usually easier to justify that they had tried everything possible. It would undoubtedly be a much more difficult decision if you had time to sit and think about your choices, and discuss them with those affected – such as facing a smiling child with a terrible illness, and her parents. I don’t know of any doctor who would not have difficulties with these decisions. To be honest this is one of the most common areas where doctors get things wrong and offer hope where there is none, due to weight of expectation. A decision such as this would be made by a team of people and not by a single doctor, to help ensure the correct choice. It would be unusual for any decision to be based on any one factor such as mental retardation. Without focusing on the individual child in this case, the disease mentioned causes a spectrum of other problems, many of which I would imagine would seriously affect her ability to receive and survive a renal transplant.

It is unfortunate that the words that were read on the doctors notes, however it must be remembered that these were likely written in the context of the decision making process, and probably not intended for the family to read. Terminology such as “mental retardation”, whilst considered to have a modern derogative meaning, are in essence medical terms that are not intended to insult or belittle. Words such as this are needed to describe very real things, for example morbid obesity, alcoholism or death. If one was shy away from correctly using a word or discussing a subject simply due to fear of causing insult they would be doing their patients a disservice.

 

[atothej09]

Wow, I can sometimes see the disallowing of a transplant due to special reasoning but this is just down right rude.. Even if a family member donates one, they refuse to do such procedures? Just a bit screwed up. =\

So much for owning your own life, and being able to do what you want with it.

 

[Snakewoman]

Same, Tahlia. I really, really wish they'd list a cause of accident.

It's hard not knowing, some people who dislike bikes will tell riders about every fatality they hear about but in most cases only the people close to the victim find out the cause of the accident. I try to hold back laughter when someone finds out I'm getting a bike and they say "oh that's dangerous". Really? I didn't know that, and I've never had anyone say that to me before :lol:

There seems to be an increasing number of people using GoPro cameras and other video cameras on their bikes, I personally will be. This could help in fatal accidents, if the camera survives, and many times it does, it could be a great help to find out what went wrong. A camera survived an impact at 170mph:

Motorcycle Crash at 170 mph - YouTube

About a minute into the video it shows footage from the camera on board the bike, and you see the camera move sharply to the right when the bike hits a wall while taking a corner. I don't know how the rider survived that one! Some of the crashes people survive are amazing, like the crash this guy had at around 100mph wearing a helmet and no other protective gear, I don't know how he survived either, but the story and photos show why wearing the right gear is so important.

The Motorcycle Crash of Chris Young | Best Beginner Motorcycles

 

[atothej09]

As many have pointed out, difficult topic, and always one that has the ability to polarize people.

Whilst the article provides a very sad story, it obviously does not give both sides. Without knowing the full picture it is difficult to comment on the right or wrongs. It is understandable for any parent to not want to give up on their children, and something I wish no one had to go through. It is also natural and expected human emotion to look for blame in cases such as this one, or as another example when a child develops Autism. Unfortunately due the emotions involved the blame is often misdirected.

Whilst I do have to make decisions on withdrawing treatment from patients, I am so glad that this only ever very rarely involves children. When the decision does involve children it is usually in the context of a resuscitation attempt, and for those involved it is usually easier to justify that they had tried everything possible. It would undoubtedly be a much more difficult decision if you had time to sit and think about your choices, and discuss them with those affected – such as facing a smiling child with a terrible illness, and her parents. I don’t know of any doctor who would not have difficulties with these decisions. To be honest this is one of the most common areas where doctors get things wrong and offer hope where there is none, due to weight of expectation. A decision such as this would be made by a team of people and not by a single doctor, to help ensure the correct choice. It would be unusual for any decision to be based on any one factor such as mental retardation. Without focusing on the individual child in this case, the disease mentioned causes a spectrum of other problems, many of which I would imagine would seriously affect her ability to receive and survive a renal transplant.

It is unfortunate that the words that were read on the doctors notes, however it must be remembered that these were likely written in the context of the decision making process, and probably not intended for the family to read. Terminology such as “mental retardation”, whilst considered to have a modern derogative meaning, are in essence medical terms that are not intended to insult or belittle. Words such as this are needed to describe very real things, for example morbid obesity, alcoholism or death. If one was shy away from correctly using a word or discussing a subject simply due to fear of causing insult they would be doing their patients a disservice.

In this 'blaming everyone but yourself' generation, these are very fair comments.
But lock tight contracts are a way around this.
No offence, but dr's also get it very wrong.
If you didn't become a doctor to save lives, then when did your morals change?
I would of thought taking a chance on saving a child's life was worth the risk over letting the child die.
There is no animosity in this, just another individual opinion. I am also wrong from time to time...lol

 

[Snakewoman]

I used to like watching The Gift when it was on channel 9, seeing how organ donation changes people's lives is amazing and it makes you think about how many people are on the waiting list that will die waiting. My family and I agree that we don't care what organs are taken out of us, if it can save another person then why not?