Carpet bite whows VDK as tiger

[Magpie]

Carpet bite shows on VDK as tiger

Anyone heard of a crappet bite showing up as tiger on a VDK test before?

 

[eipper]

Not carpets but bhp's do show up as tigers

 

[SteveNT]

what's a VDK test?

 

[Venomous1111]

what's a VDK test?

Venom detection kit test

 

[Radar]

Well that there is a slightly dangerous little conundrum...

 

[kawasakirider]

Not carpets but bhp's do show up as tigers

How does that work?

 

[saximus]

I'd like to hope that if the doctor saw the number of teeth marks that a python leaves when compared to an elapid would tip them off to the fact that it's a false reading...

 

[Firepac]

If the doctors follow the correct protocol then they should NOT administer anti-venom until the patient becomes symptomatic which would not happen from a Carpet or BHP bite so any false reading to a non-ven should be irrelevant. They may of course prepare IV lines, draw blood for various tests including fibrinogen levels and tests for DIC, full blood count, electrolysis and calcium, creatinine kinase and arterial blood gases etc, and collect urine IN CASE symptoms ensue.

 

[Klaery]

If the doctors follow the correct protocol then they should NOT administer anti-venom until the patient becomes symptomatic which would not happen from a Carpet or BHP bite so any false reading to a non-ven should be irrelevant.

Good way to go about things but as we all know in the heat of the moment some of these protocols get forgotten. Friend copped a rouphie bite and with only minor symptoms was given some rediculous amount of antivenom (I don't remember the exact number but it was well in excess of 3 vials, something ludicrous). But at least he is still here to tell the tale. I'll have to ask him exactly how much antvenom he copped. I know afterwards he was worried for his liver.

 

[Firepac]

Good way to go about things but as we all know in the heat of the moment some of these protocols get forgotten. Friend copped a rouphie bite and with only minor symptoms was given some rediculous amount of antivenom (I don't remember the exact number but it was well in excess of 3 vials, something ludicrous). But at least he is still here to tell the tale. I'll have to ask him exactly how much antvenom he copped. I know afterwards he was worried for his liver.

Completely agree,, I know someone locally who got tagged by a juvenile EB, went to the hospital totally asymptomatic, SVDK showed postitve for EB so the doctor was about to give her AV until the nurses stopped her!!

Which is exactly why I carry a laminated card with the current correct medical treatment for snake bite in medical language with me whenever I get a callout to relocate a snake.

 

[Magpie]

If the doctors follow the correct protocol then they should NOT administer anti-venom until the patient becomes symptomatic which would not happen from a Carpet or BHP bite so any false reading to a non-ven should be irrelevant. They may of course prepare IV lines, draw blood for various tests including fibrinogen levels and tests for DIC, full blood count, electrolysis and calcium, creatinine kinase and arterial blood gases etc, and collect urine IN CASE symptoms ensue.

Gosh, oh really? I'll have to let her know. Thanks for that, who would have thought?

Eipper, definately a carpet. Very strong reading for Tiger. I can't show you pics or too many details but I know a carpet from a BHP The snake was brought in dead.

 

[Helikaon]

did you use urine or serum as the test sample, i have found in dogs that serum samples quite often give false positives to any of them.

 

[Mister_Snakes]

Which is exactly why I carry a laminated card with the current correct medical treatment for snake bite in medical language with me whenever I get a callout to relocate a snake.

That sounds like a very handy thing to carry with you, wouldn't be able to pass that info or a link to somewhere that has it would you?

 

[Firepac]

That sounds like a very handy thing to carry with you, wouldn't be able to pass that info or a link to somewhere that has it would you?

Sure, I get it mainly from the AVRU website and also I have it posted on my own website Medical Treatment of Snake Bite - Snakes of the Whitsundays

 

[Tsubakai]

Very common to get false positive results on VDK (more so when using urine and serum but still occurs when using skin swabs). The management of snakebite is quite simple but gets stuffed up all the time as people continue to get confused. It frustrates the crap out of me.

 

[mikey_mike]

If the doctors follow the correct protocol then they should NOT administer anti-venom until the patient becomes symptomatic which would not happen from a Carpet or BHP bite so any false reading to a non-ven should be irrelevant. They may of course prepare IV lines, draw blood for various tests including fibrinogen levels and tests for DIC, full blood count, electrolysis and calcium, creatinine kinase and arterial blood gases etc, and collect urine IN CASE symptoms ensue.

True but people often develop symptoms due to anxiety - nausea, lightheadedness etc.
Sometimes people display signs - eg regional lymphadenopathy due to other reasons.
Blood tests - such as coagulation may be deranged for other reasons.
So sometimes VDK is used in people that turn out to be nonenvenomed - never done it myself but it happens. False positives are reasonably common in VDKs.

"I'd like to hope that if the doctor saw the number of teeth marks that a python leaves when compared to an elapid would tip them off to the fact that it's a false reading..."

Unfortunately we're not guided much by what the bite mark looks like - the consequences of dismissing an envenomed bite as a python bite would be pretty dire.

 

[eipper]

Magpie,

I don't doubt the carpet all I am saying is I know bhp's have also caused false readings

Cheers
scott

 

[-Peter]

Good way to go about things but as we all know in the heat of the moment some of these protocols get forgotten. Friend copped a rouphie bite and with only minor symptoms was given some rediculous amount of antivenom (I don't remember the exact number but it was well in excess of 3 vials, something ludicrous). But at least he is still here to tell the tale. I'll have to ask him exactly how much antvenom he copped. I know afterwards he was worried for his liver.

One would want to know what the minor symptoms were before passing judgement. I assume you are referring to Tropidechis carinatus. There a several reasons for giving antivenom even when the patient doesn't appear to be rolling over and dieing. Organ, nerve and tissue breakdown with internal bleeding being major problems. So 3 vials should not be considered ludicrous.

 

[Klaery]

One would want to know what the minor symptoms were before passing judgement. I assume you are referring to Tropidechis carinatus. There a several reasons for giving antivenom even when the patient doesn't appear to be rolling over and dieing. Organ, nerve and tissue breakdown with internal bleeding being major problems. So 3 vials should not be considered ludicrous.

I said well in excess of three the number I remember is five. I would have to check though.. Memories can't be trusted. I would call that ludicrous.

 

[Magpie]

did you use urine or serum as the test sample, i have found in dogs that serum samples quite often give false positives to any of them.

The test was from a swab at the bite site.
The doctor in this case did in fact know a bit about snakes - most don't - and saw that the bite resembled a python bite not an elapid.
The main issue was that it was a very strong positive, but obviously just one of those things.