Woma tail wagging considered caudal luring according to DECCW. Thoughts?

[Sock Puppet]

I was just browsing the threatened species list on the DECCW website, & was reading the summary for the woma python in NSW, refer link & text below, in particular the last bullet point.

DEC | NSW threatened species - Woma

Habitat and ecology

• Terrestrial, inhabiting subtropical to temperate deserts and sandy plains, as well as dunefields and deep cracking black soil plains in semi-arid areas.
• Occurs in hummock grasslands, shrublands or woodlands and shelters in animal burrows, hollow logs or under grass hummocks.
• Feeds at night on lizards, snakes, birds and small mammals, which it captures using a range of strategies; known to rely on ambush predation in a manner similar to death adders (Acanthophis spp.) by using its tail to lure prey; also actively forages on the ground, in animal burrows and in trees.

Now I have often seen my womas wagging/wiggling their tails at feeding time, however I'd hardly call it caudal luring as an adder or GTP would do it. It's more like the excited wagging a knob tail gecko does at feeding time in my opinion. They aren't looking to ambush anything, they are actively moving around looking for the source of the smell of food.

Has anyone witnessed a woma caudal luring in an ambush position? Even better if you've got a video of it.

The last point also has a curious comment about them foraging in trees? Interesting for a terrestrial species, has anyone actually seen this? (fallen trees don't count...)

 

[viridis]

I had a 10 year old North Western that used to lure more than any Chondro that I have owned. This snake would actively sit high in her enclosure with her tail six inches from her face and go to town wiggling her tail until she got a food item.

Olives, Womas and Spotted’s have all been known to wiggle their tails at feed time on more than one occasion.

How do you know that Knob Tailed’s are not using their tail as a lure??????? I have a decent sized N. Asper collection and many sit and wait for their food. I think many keepers would be surprised how different their animals actually act when they are kept in a large, natural landscaped enclosure instead of a box with 2 inches of sand in the bottom and a plastic hide.

I have kept various species of Nephrurus in large outdoor pits with Spinifex, logs, sleepers and rocks. All of these animals could be seen sitting at the entrance of their 'shelter' and snatching food as it went past. It was not until later in the night where they would go walk abouts and had usually already had a few crickets by then. I have seen N. asper sit stationary near cover with their tails wiggling too many times to think that they are not using their tail as some sort of lure.

Once again, if they are kept in a 50cm square plastic tub with a fake plastic hide as their hide, they may well chase their prey down, but this is definitely not the case in a 2 meter round landscaped pit.

 

[Sock Puppet]

Interesting about your woma, would be great to see this behaviour with them.

Re: the knobbies, fair point, have only ever seen mine tail wag as they chase a food item down. I know that it has been debated whether or not it's used as a lure, but I haven't come across anything definitive so can only comment from my own observations.

Thanks for commenting.

 

[viridis]

I was only commenting that Womas, Olives and Spotted are a few pythons that wiggle. I don't think that they are using it as a lure, more so out of excitment. The North Western on the other hand was def luring and she did so on may occasions even when no food was being offered.

 

[SteveNT]

I have seen a bhp up in a tree near Pine Creek. And my pet bhp spends 30% of his time climbing the logs and branches in his enclosure.

Dont know about womas though.

 

[Sock Puppet]

Cheers viridis, that'd be unreal to see, don't suppose you have it on YouTube or something? Would be interested to hear from other keepers if they've seen this behaviour with their animals. How old was your girl when you first noticed her doing it viridis? I know you said above that she was 10yo, but was this when you first saw it?

Thanks Steve, that would have been an unusual sight!

 

[driftoz]

I have seen a bhp up in a tree near Pine Creek. And my pet bhp spends 30% of his time climbing the logs and branches in his enclosure.

Dont know about womas though.

my woma also climbs all over his high rock and have even seen him completely hanging off his light cage not touching the ground lol got a pic somewhere i think

 

[rvcasa]

I read an article by Doc Rock (Southern X Reptiles), where he thinks Womas are just excited/happy and not really caudal luring?!

I've also read an article some time ago (can't remember where, perhaps BBC) that for caudal luring, their tail is usually not far from their heads, in order to tempt their prey and bite . And that Womas hunt mostly small reptiles in their burrows, so no need of caudal luring.

Interesting post nonetheless!

Mine does flick/wag it's tail even just after finished it's meal, climbing on us, or most of the times just by touch/light stroke down it's body (my son's preferable method of interacting with our Woma).

...The last point also has a curious comment about them foraging in trees? Interesting for a terrestrial species, has anyone actually seen this? (fallen trees don't count...)

I've read an article (blog actually) by a UQ student (co-Australia Zoo Hospital) where while they were tagging Womas of North West Toowomba, (I think it was) and they spotted 2 different Womas hunting lizards up high at 5 meters, up in trees !! (photos included).

 

[tigerwoods]

When my woma's wiggle their tail, it is often not near their head. I see it as more of a case of excitement, (food response) over luring prey closer to their mouths.
Also, when it comes to climbing I think woma's are probably the most unco-ordinated python going around.Mine fall down when they're more than 4 inchs off the ground.

 

[Gruni]

Would it still be considered luring if the Woma waits until it gets the scent of it's prey close by and then starts wagging? Just that the comments at the start of the thread are based on captive snakes being presented with a dead target so the wag is out of context.... I'm no expert and it is just a thought.

 

[Sezzzzzzzzz]

I have seen a bhp up in a tree near Pine Creek. And my pet bhp spends 30% of his time climbing the logs and branches in his enclosure.

Dont know about womas though.

My woma climbs a little, not as good as the jungle and diamond, but he still does..

bit off topic, but does anyone have a video of the tail wagging so I know what I am looking for?

 

[Bandit05]

My Woma sleeps on his rock wall , not along the top but jams himself in the crevices along the front , he also does the tail wiggle bit when hungry or if I wiggle my fingers at him.

 

[rvcasa]

Would it still be considered luring if the Woma waits until it gets the scent of it's prey close by and then starts wagging?

Now, there's an interesting question
Womas do not have heat pitts, that's why their prey in the wild is mostly (cold blood) reptiles so their prey would have to be very close to be scented?!

Perhaps that's why they raid other animals' burrows? For better success rate? I also read an article about Womas, in the wild not really constricting their prey...

"They prey upon mammals, reptiles (including venomous snakes) and birds, and will ambush prey in burrows. When a Woma is attacking prey in a burrow, it may be unable to completely coil its prey due to space restrictions, and instead it will press the prey against the wall of the burrow to asphyxiate it. - not a very efficient killing method and it's common to see Womas in the wild with scars".

I tend not to believe it that much, as my Woma always coils to constrict the food I give him. However, we are talking about captive here, their 'style' may not mimic that of the wild.
Womas are terrestrial in habitat, utilising animal burrows and hollow logs for shelter. They can even make adjustments to a burrow by using their head as a shovel.
They are primarily nocturnal animals, however more recent observations are revealing that at certain times of the year they may come out to bask during the day.

Cheers.

P.S. I often read about "Womas and Black Head Pythons are the only in the world to lack heat pitts" However, it was discovered a few years ago that BHP have pitts under their rostral scales. (check out pilbarapythons/videos)

 

[bredli84]

My woma will always "tail wag" when excited about food. I was under the impression that this behaviour was more designed to lure potential predators to the tail end of the snake while it is too distracted by feeding to properly defend itself...
I also thought this applied to the geckos as well.

Much better to lose the end of a tail than the end of a head. A quickly wagging tail is a much more tempting target...


As for the comment about womas using their bodies to push the prey against the walls of burrows, I have seen mine do similar behaviour to this. Infact, when excited, if you touch his side he will press back against you.

Oh, mine also climbs all the time. He falls off his branch pretty damn often too...

 

[rvcasa]

...Oh, mine also climbs all the time. He falls off his branch pretty damn often too...

Yeah, they do climb, but very clumsy! Mine wobbles so much is almost heart breaking to watch.
(whenever I open the lid, he likes to crawl around the edge of his enclosure, I never know when he's about to fall down on floor)

However, as said before, I read an article posted by an UQ student, Melissa Bruton, studying/radiotracking Woma pythons to determine their habitat use. They spotted and photographed 2 different Womas hunting a lizard, 5 meters up high in a tree!

P.S. @bredli84, very nice avatar!! I only wish my Woma would stay still for longer than 1 second and I would have some nice snap shots by now.

...does anyone have a video of the tail wagging so I know what I am looking for?

Here:[video=youtube_share;2UkNiru9vwc]http://youtu.be/2UkNiru9vwc?t=8s[/video]


Doc Rock, Southern X Reptiles writes:

In my experience, the behaviour of captive womas is unique amongst pythons. Their antics can be quite amusing and so they are great fun to watch. When a woma is hungry and it thinks it is going to be fed, they get excited and wriggle their tails madly. Most would call this caudal luring – which is the habit of some snakes to wriggle their tails so it looks like food and then as their prey approaches they grab it and the stalker becomes the stalked. But in womas, I think it is just pure excitement that drives the behaviour. I’ve watched GTPs caudal lure and their tail looks just like a worm as they hold it in front of their head to facilitate their ambush. Womas, however, will wriggle their tails so that it is nowhere near their head and then when really excited by food, they will bob their heads up and down like a male lizard on heat.
This vigorous tail-wriggling trait can be quite loud too so that when I walk into our snake room I can hear the hungry womas all vibrating their tails like an orchestra of musical rattles. Female womas also do this when excited about a male being placed in their cage."

 

[rvcasa]

...and further more:

"Womas (like BHPs) are active hunters rather than just ambush predators (so unlike carpet pythons). The often hunt down burrows and are very good at killing in confined spaces. When a prey rubs against their body they crush them against the side of the hole and grab it."

 

[Crystal..Discus]

Over the past couple of months we've observed my Woma python pressing herself flat against the walls of her enclosure so she could reach the highest possible point (which was her heat lamp.) And if she wasn't doing that...



She would be stuck on the lock.

Currently in the process of finding some sturdy branches and logs to put into her enclosure. She loves to be on the highest possible object, but I've stopped using her heat lamp until I can purchase a proper light cage (that one was made with the idea that womas didn't climb, or at least very high.)

But in womas, I think it is just pure excitement that drives the behaviour.

I agree with this. Like puppies wagging their tails. :lol:

 

[Boondocker]

I think the inference by DECCW that woma tail wriggling is 'caudal luring' is misplaced. Most likely it is a side product of tensed muscles and excitement moments before food is attacked. Non receptive females wriggle their tales when a male is introduced, but if you notice, that wriggling is of longer duration than the short bursts of a feed alerted woma. So apparently there are different circumstances that can cause the wriggling and different kinds of wriggling as well.

 

[CaptainRatbag]

BHP & Womas (Asps) dont have a prehensile tail like other pythons (they cant wrap thier tail around and grip anything) I could easily believe that a BHP or woma might position its body under leaf litter or soil on a frequently used path/track and when an animal walks between the tail and the mouth.... a quick wiggle would make the animal run away from the disturbance.... straight for the snakes mouth

 

[Boondocker]

BHP & Womas (Asps) dont have a prehensile tail like other pythons (they cant wrap thier tail around and grip anything) I could easily believe that a BHP or woma might position its body under leaf litter or soil on a frequently used path/track and when an animal walks between the tail and the mouth.... a quick wiggle would make the animal run away from the disturbance.... straight for the snakes mouth

Perhaps 'caudal prompting'? hahaha